WEBVTT 1 00:00:09.795 --> 00:00:10.725 Welcome, Laura. 2 00:00:10.995 --> 00:00:12.685 Very excited to have you here today. 3 00:00:13.225 --> 00:00:14.845 Um, um, we were just chatting 4 00:00:14.845 --> 00:00:16.325 before we started recording actually, 5 00:00:16.325 --> 00:00:19.365 and I was saying that I first came across Laura about 15 6 00:00:19.365 --> 00:00:22.485 years ago when I was lucky enough to go along to one 7 00:00:22.485 --> 00:00:23.805 of her TA training sessions. 8 00:00:23.985 --> 00:00:25.325 And I highly recommend this. 9 00:00:25.645 --> 00:00:27.285 Probably don't do them anymore actually, Laura, do you? 10 00:00:28.085 --> 00:00:29.565 I do actually. Oh, good. 11 00:00:30.105 --> 00:00:33.085 So if you see any, if I'm doing a training or keynote 12 00:00:33.425 --> 00:00:37.725 or if you want to organize an inset twilight for your 13 00:00:38.235 --> 00:00:40.805 setting school, please contact me. 14 00:00:41.945 --> 00:00:44.525 Um, but yeah, my teacher at the time was a massive fan 15 00:00:44.525 --> 00:00:46.085 of yours and I know you're still working together. 16 00:00:46.705 --> 00:00:49.445 Um, so since then we've crossed paths many times 17 00:00:49.785 --> 00:00:52.445 and I've followed Laura, who is a big inspiration to me 18 00:00:52.505 --> 00:00:53.725 and also many, many others. 19 00:00:54.425 --> 00:00:58.205 Um, Laura is an award-winning international producer, 20 00:00:59.155 --> 00:01:01.965 storyteller, educationalist consultant. 21 00:01:02.745 --> 00:01:05.765 Um, worked as a nursery manager, Ofsted inspector. 22 00:01:06.235 --> 00:01:08.445 I've written these down 'cause there's many of them. Oh 23 00:01:08.505 --> 00:01:09.525 No, not Ofsted. 24 00:01:10.915 --> 00:01:12.285 Yeah, maybe we don't link that one in. 25 00:01:13.585 --> 00:01:15.005 Um, and also supported 26 00:01:15.005 --> 00:01:17.205 and collaborated with lots of names you'll recognized. 27 00:01:17.225 --> 00:01:20.565 So nursery World Department for Education, BBC, 28 00:01:21.285 --> 00:01:22.605 national Literacy Trust, early 29 00:01:22.605 --> 00:01:24.125 Education, and many, many more. 30 00:01:24.705 --> 00:01:27.645 Um, and also she's a bestselling children's book author. 31 00:01:28.265 --> 00:01:31.045 Um, so many of you will know the BBS jojo 32 00:01:31.045 --> 00:01:32.965 and Grand Grand series, which is much loved 33 00:01:32.985 --> 00:01:34.525 by my own daughter Ivy. 34 00:01:34.945 --> 00:01:36.525 Um, this was created by Arthur, 35 00:01:36.625 --> 00:01:38.765 but she's also worked as a producer on it. 36 00:01:39.265 --> 00:01:41.085 Um, Laura advises on children 37 00:01:41.145 --> 00:01:43.445 and family issues, which we're gonna talk about a bit more 38 00:01:43.445 --> 00:01:45.885 later on, and a big advocate for play. 39 00:01:46.305 --> 00:01:48.565 Um, she was a commissioner on raising the nation 40 00:01:48.565 --> 00:01:50.445 and national inquiry into play. 41 00:01:51.145 --> 00:01:52.805 Um, so I could go on. 42 00:01:52.835 --> 00:01:54.205 There's so many amazing things 43 00:01:54.205 --> 00:01:55.365 that Laura's been involved with. 44 00:01:55.705 --> 00:01:58.805 I'm super excited to have her here today. So welcome Laura. 45 00:01:59.385 --> 00:02:00.485 Really, really. Thank 46 00:02:00.485 --> 00:02:01.485 You. Thank 47 00:02:01.485 --> 00:02:03.725 you. Kay. I always almost felt 48 00:02:03.725 --> 00:02:05.645 that you was reading my eulogy there. 49 00:02:07.065 --> 00:02:09.125 No, and it's a pleasure. And I think one of the things 50 00:02:09.125 --> 00:02:10.365 that I love is that 51 00:02:10.725 --> 00:02:12.405 although, you know, I'm a children's author, 52 00:02:13.645 --> 00:02:16.325 children's TV content, I am still an early years person 53 00:02:16.705 --> 00:02:19.485 and that helps me quite a lot in the other bits 54 00:02:19.485 --> 00:02:20.525 about that I do. 55 00:02:21.425 --> 00:02:23.405 Um, early years is something 56 00:02:23.405 --> 00:02:27.765 that I'm still super passionate about and always will be. 57 00:02:28.225 --> 00:02:32.605 So I must always still keep on talking about, um, children 58 00:02:32.665 --> 00:02:35.125 and families because that is very important 59 00:02:36.105 --> 00:02:38.045 And there's always something to do. There's 60 00:02:38.045 --> 00:02:40.405 Always Totally, totally. 61 00:02:41.905 --> 00:02:43.445 So that's it. Um, so yeah, 62 00:02:43.445 --> 00:02:44.685 just I'll kick off with a question. 63 00:02:45.265 --> 00:02:48.885 Um, so you are a big inspiration to lots of people, um, 64 00:02:49.105 --> 00:02:51.405 but you left school with virtually no qualifications. 65 00:02:51.745 --> 00:02:54.565 Um, you're dyslexic and you speak about this, um, 66 00:02:54.665 --> 00:02:57.765 and also mother to two sons, one of Whom's autistic 67 00:02:58.185 --> 00:03:00.805 and now you're traveling the world sharing your story. 68 00:03:00.905 --> 00:03:02.805 You're an author, speaker, consultant. 69 00:03:03.345 --> 00:03:06.485 Can you tell us a little bit about your journey to 70 00:03:06.485 --> 00:03:08.565 where you are today and also where your passion 71 00:03:08.585 --> 00:03:09.845 for storytelling came from? 72 00:03:11.315 --> 00:03:13.925 Yeah, I think that's, that's a great question, Kate, 73 00:03:13.925 --> 00:03:17.765 because I think, firstly, I'll answer it back to front. 74 00:03:18.555 --> 00:03:20.405 I've always been a storyteller. 75 00:03:20.745 --> 00:03:25.485 Um, that's always something that's been in my family for, 76 00:03:25.905 --> 00:03:29.405 for years, you know, um, they always told stories. 77 00:03:29.545 --> 00:03:30.685 My mom's from St. 78 00:03:30.735 --> 00:03:32.765 Lucia, so they didn't have a TV growing up, 79 00:03:33.305 --> 00:03:35.445 so it was always telling stories. 80 00:03:35.705 --> 00:03:38.645 So I would sell more storyteller than an author if I'm 81 00:03:38.645 --> 00:03:41.565 telling stories verbally, if I'm delivering a keynote. 82 00:03:41.985 --> 00:03:45.725 But essentially storytelling, then writing books, 83 00:03:46.245 --> 00:03:47.645 articles, et cetera. 84 00:03:48.585 --> 00:03:52.525 But leaving school at 16, hardly any qualifications. 85 00:03:52.645 --> 00:03:55.565 I didn't know then until my early thirties 86 00:03:55.715 --> 00:03:57.245 that I am dyslexic. 87 00:03:57.325 --> 00:03:59.365 I think I always vaguely knew. 88 00:03:59.945 --> 00:04:02.365 And a lot of people say, wow, you speak, 89 00:04:02.385 --> 00:04:03.565 you are very articulate. 90 00:04:03.705 --> 00:04:05.245 You write children's thoughts. 91 00:04:05.745 --> 00:04:08.965 How can you be, how can you actually be, 92 00:04:09.785 --> 00:04:11.325 um, dyslexic? 93 00:04:12.255 --> 00:04:16.805 Every autistic person is different because we're all unique. 94 00:04:17.065 --> 00:04:21.685 So how my dyslexia has an impact on me is my grammar. 95 00:04:22.435 --> 00:04:26.005 I've got verbal dyslexia, the way I pronounce certain words, 96 00:04:26.595 --> 00:04:30.525 handwriting and spelling, but reading of always loved. 97 00:04:30.545 --> 00:04:34.125 So when I left school, I worked as a clerk typist 98 00:04:34.145 --> 00:04:36.765 for a couple of years and I just thought 99 00:04:36.765 --> 00:04:38.565 to myself, I love that job. 100 00:04:38.565 --> 00:04:40.765 And I'm still in contact with a couple of the colleagues 101 00:04:40.765 --> 00:04:43.245 who I worked with many years ago. 102 00:04:43.305 --> 00:04:45.365 And I just thought, is this it? 103 00:04:45.625 --> 00:04:48.325 And it was very repetitive in terms of what I was doing, 104 00:04:48.425 --> 00:04:50.685 typing reports, admin work. 105 00:04:50.865 --> 00:04:53.405 And I thought, do I wanna do this for the rest of my life? 106 00:04:54.185 --> 00:04:57.765 It got to the point, and if the listeners may remember, 107 00:04:57.865 --> 00:05:02.525 we had this, you was able to dial, uh, a number 108 00:05:02.545 --> 00:05:07.045 and you'd get music 24 7 before we had the internet. 109 00:05:08.185 --> 00:05:10.765 And I would be on the phone listening to this music 110 00:05:10.985 --> 00:05:14.535 and think, thinking to myself, you know, this was lovely. 111 00:05:14.535 --> 00:05:17.095 Then I'd say to my boss, you know, I'm on the phone to a, 112 00:05:17.675 --> 00:05:19.375 to a client, et cetera. 113 00:05:19.915 --> 00:05:23.335 So I think for me, um, then I applied. 114 00:05:23.495 --> 00:05:25.535 I just thought, this isn't going to be for me 115 00:05:26.955 --> 00:05:29.295 to a college, a local college. 116 00:05:29.315 --> 00:05:31.735 And in those days, the only qualification was the 117 00:05:31.815 --> 00:05:33.135 NNEB nursery nursing. 118 00:05:33.835 --> 00:05:35.855 It was oversubscribed at Ton College. 119 00:05:35.875 --> 00:05:37.775 And I got in, I remember doing a circular 120 00:05:38.765 --> 00:05:41.135 team interviews type style thing. 121 00:05:41.475 --> 00:05:43.695 And I remember talking about children 122 00:05:43.795 --> 00:05:44.895 and when I worked as a, 123 00:05:46.315 --> 00:05:48.135 the two week placement I did at school, 124 00:05:48.135 --> 00:05:49.175 which was in a day nurse, 125 00:05:49.235 --> 00:05:51.655 and I think I shared something to do with a child then, 126 00:05:51.755 --> 00:05:52.775 and then I got in. 127 00:05:53.415 --> 00:05:56.615 I don't think I got in on my, the literacy angle 128 00:05:56.615 --> 00:05:58.165 because that wasn't there. 129 00:05:59.025 --> 00:06:02.205 So maybe the lecturers saw empathy in me, 130 00:06:02.205 --> 00:06:04.205 passion, et cetera. 131 00:06:04.825 --> 00:06:07.725 And then when I started it was, hallelujah, 132 00:06:07.725 --> 00:06:08.925 this is where I need to be. 133 00:06:09.885 --> 00:06:11.125 I loved it. 134 00:06:11.245 --> 00:06:14.085 I mean, I went over and aboard the different placements 135 00:06:14.145 --> 00:06:16.165 of anybody's familiar with the NNEB. 136 00:06:16.625 --> 00:06:18.845 We had so many different placements. 137 00:06:19.085 --> 00:06:21.685 I went to Great Ormond Street special Needs school 138 00:06:22.265 --> 00:06:25.605 day nursery, nursery class infants, nanny, 139 00:06:25.665 --> 00:06:27.165 and I absolutely adored it. 140 00:06:27.165 --> 00:06:31.445 And then when I left, worked in different day nurseries, um, 141 00:06:32.395 --> 00:06:36.485 head, I rose quite quickly to be a manager in a nursery. 142 00:06:37.345 --> 00:06:40.125 Um, then I left different qualifications, 143 00:06:40.765 --> 00:06:45.125 a lecture in a college, Offstead Local Authority. 144 00:06:45.745 --> 00:06:49.965 And then around 20 years ago started freelance training UK 145 00:06:50.105 --> 00:06:53.405 and overseas, um, working with brands, 146 00:06:54.075 --> 00:06:58.005 writing articles for nursery world, other early years 147 00:06:58.525 --> 00:07:02.525 magazines, and just loved working freelance 148 00:07:02.745 --> 00:07:04.125 and just doing what I do. 149 00:07:04.185 --> 00:07:07.205 And then the, the book work that was bought from doing some 150 00:07:07.715 --> 00:07:09.245 work with the BBC 151 00:07:10.305 --> 00:07:12.205 and just saying, 152 00:07:12.235 --> 00:07:14.845 I've written this book about a little girl and her grandmother. 153 00:07:14.945 --> 00:07:19.685 We got a few nos and then eventually, um, got a yes. 154 00:07:19.865 --> 00:07:22.645 And then five years ago in March, 155 00:07:23.595 --> 00:07:26.405 it's been on CBBs just before we went into lockdown. 156 00:07:26.545 --> 00:07:31.245 Now globally it's many children are enjoying the story, 157 00:07:31.935 --> 00:07:33.245 which is personal to me 158 00:07:33.365 --> 00:07:34.365 'cause it's based on the relationship 159 00:07:34.405 --> 00:07:35.445 I had with my grandmother. 160 00:07:36.465 --> 00:07:39.365 And my middle name is Josephine, hence Jojo. 161 00:07:40.185 --> 00:07:43.725 So, so that's where we are today, I suppose, you know? 162 00:07:44.435 --> 00:07:46.525 Yeah, we were looking at pictures of you the day actually 163 00:07:46.595 --> 00:07:48.965 with, um, I was saying I was gonna speak to you today 164 00:07:48.965 --> 00:07:52.005 to my daughter, and I was saying that you'd written jojo. 165 00:07:52.025 --> 00:07:53.485 And she was like, is that jojo? 166 00:07:53.545 --> 00:07:54.885 And I was like, I think she bless 167 00:07:54.905 --> 00:07:56.285 Her. Yeah, 168 00:07:56.435 --> 00:07:57.435 Yeah, yeah. 169 00:07:57.795 --> 00:07:59.085 When I'm at an event 170 00:07:59.625 --> 00:08:03.165 and um, I say to to children, 171 00:08:03.725 --> 00:08:05.405 I explain, I say, this is me. 172 00:08:06.005 --> 00:08:07.605 I am, I'm jojo. 173 00:08:07.605 --> 00:08:08.645 They sort of like, look at me 174 00:08:08.645 --> 00:08:11.085 because they don't make the link, you know, I say, 175 00:08:11.085 --> 00:08:12.405 this was me when I was little. 176 00:08:13.305 --> 00:08:16.165 And then we talk about again, you know, sort of like want 177 00:08:16.165 --> 00:08:17.645 for a better word, the cycle of life. 178 00:08:18.385 --> 00:08:20.605 You know, did you have pictures of you when you were a baby? 179 00:08:20.825 --> 00:08:23.485 And then I say, can you believe it? I was once your age. 180 00:08:23.585 --> 00:08:27.805 And again, they look at me and say, you're owned you. 181 00:08:28.835 --> 00:08:30.205 Yeah. Thank you children. 182 00:08:31.055 --> 00:08:32.965 Thank you. Next question. Yeah, 183 00:08:34.125 --> 00:08:35.125 Absolutely. 184 00:08:35.345 --> 00:08:37.805 That's it. And I think the message that's coming out of 185 00:08:37.805 --> 00:08:39.685 that is just about passion and joy. 186 00:08:40.565 --> 00:08:42.605 Absolutely. Yeah. That's absolutely 187 00:08:42.985 --> 00:08:44.685 Of what you're doing. So yeah, 188 00:08:44.985 --> 00:08:48.565 And fusing together my early years work, 189 00:08:48.915 --> 00:08:50.525 because actually technically 190 00:08:50.585 --> 00:08:51.805 that's why I said in the beginning, 191 00:08:51.865 --> 00:08:53.245 I'm still an early years person 192 00:08:54.155 --> 00:08:57.445 because what I do in terms of writing children's books, 193 00:08:58.145 --> 00:08:59.565 it is for early years children. 194 00:09:00.125 --> 00:09:02.965 Although they go up some of the nonfiction books, you know, 195 00:09:02.985 --> 00:09:06.765 to key stage two and three in some aspects. 196 00:09:07.465 --> 00:09:11.725 But I am still, um, that early years person 197 00:09:12.065 --> 00:09:16.485 how I went into age 19 starting the NNEB 198 00:09:16.705 --> 00:09:18.885 course full of enthusiasm 199 00:09:19.825 --> 00:09:23.005 and a, a hunger for more information 200 00:09:23.025 --> 00:09:24.365 how children learn and develop. 201 00:09:24.565 --> 00:09:26.645 I was always fascinated with 202 00:09:26.645 --> 00:09:29.525 that child development aspect of it. Yeah. 203 00:09:29.705 --> 00:09:31.285 That's it. Yeah. And that will come 204 00:09:31.285 --> 00:09:32.965 through in your books too, I imagine, Nora? 205 00:09:33.885 --> 00:09:35.245 Absolutely. I think it does 206 00:09:35.245 --> 00:09:38.565 because when I'm writing a book, I always think, oh, 207 00:09:38.565 --> 00:09:40.685 will a 4-year-old be able to understand this? 208 00:09:40.995 --> 00:09:43.805 Will a 3-year-old be able to pick that up? 209 00:09:43.825 --> 00:09:47.285 And then I can remember sometimes different things if a 210 00:09:47.285 --> 00:09:51.165 child has said something to me, the rhythm and the flow. 211 00:09:51.345 --> 00:09:53.925 And with Myron, while in the great big tidy up, 212 00:09:54.925 --> 00:09:56.245 somebody pointed out to me recently, 213 00:09:56.345 --> 00:09:57.405 oh, this is really good. 214 00:09:57.405 --> 00:10:02.085 Because it talks about the awe and the awe and wonder 215 00:10:03.065 --> 00:10:04.685 and the critical thinking 216 00:10:05.025 --> 00:10:08.565 and getting to children to be solution driven 217 00:10:08.715 --> 00:10:10.565 with their own ideas, you know? 218 00:10:11.145 --> 00:10:13.845 That's it. Yeah. Yeah. It's good stuff. It's good stuff. 219 00:10:13.985 --> 00:10:16.885 So, yeah. Um, I was gonna touch more about your author work 220 00:10:16.885 --> 00:10:19.965 because you've obviously an author of lots of books, um, 221 00:10:20.025 --> 00:10:21.685 on creating jojo and Grand Grand. 222 00:10:22.225 --> 00:10:24.605 Um, and I'm a big believer, 223 00:10:24.605 --> 00:10:27.725 and I know you are too, about the power of story for change. 224 00:10:28.425 --> 00:10:30.845 Um, and I'm really proud to have been able 225 00:10:30.845 --> 00:10:32.085 to help a little bit with your 226 00:10:32.085 --> 00:10:33.245 f**k about, uh, with your book. 227 00:10:34.985 --> 00:10:36.525 I'm really proud to be able to have helped 228 00:10:36.525 --> 00:10:38.565 with your book about families, um, 229 00:10:38.835 --> 00:10:40.445 with my own story about Ivy. 230 00:10:40.485 --> 00:10:41.645 I dunno if people know out there, 231 00:10:41.665 --> 00:10:43.805 but I have had Ivy with a donor, 232 00:10:43.825 --> 00:10:45.205 so I'm a solo mum by choice. 233 00:10:45.985 --> 00:10:49.005 Um, and I think for me it's very important seeing 234 00:10:49.005 --> 00:10:51.405 that representation of different families, 235 00:10:52.055 --> 00:10:54.285 especially just doing ordinary things. 236 00:10:54.945 --> 00:10:58.285 Um, so I'd love to kind of know your purpose for writing 237 00:10:58.905 --> 00:11:00.645 and how you see your different stories 238 00:11:00.645 --> 00:11:01.685 kind of impacting children. 239 00:11:03.465 --> 00:11:07.105 I always say that Freud would have a fill day on me 240 00:11:07.895 --> 00:11:11.745 because actually many of my books, if it's fiction books 241 00:11:11.805 --> 00:11:15.505 or nonfiction, I do, do you know, other books that I'm, um, 242 00:11:15.815 --> 00:11:17.785 apps, you know, creating currently. 243 00:11:18.365 --> 00:11:19.665 But it comes down to family. 244 00:11:20.485 --> 00:11:23.745 And I've been doing some work with the founder in museum 245 00:11:24.335 --> 00:11:26.345 near, um, King's Cross area, 246 00:11:26.345 --> 00:11:29.025 because we know the found Lynn was Thomas Corrum, 247 00:11:29.715 --> 00:11:32.505 where babies quote unquote were just left. 248 00:11:33.125 --> 00:11:35.105 And that was very emotional the first session I 249 00:11:35.105 --> 00:11:36.225 did last week actually. _____________ 250 00:11:37.125 --> 00:11:41.225 And my story is, is that it's family, so jojo 251 00:11:41.225 --> 00:11:44.665 and grand, grand grandmother, granddaughter, ma 252 00:11:44.665 --> 00:11:45.745 and Marley, their brother 253 00:11:45.765 --> 00:11:48.865 and sister, a TV show that I've got in development, 254 00:11:48.935 --> 00:11:50.545 it's about a family unit. 255 00:11:50.645 --> 00:11:55.085 And then my nonfiction book is My Family, your Family. 256 00:11:55.985 --> 00:11:59.485 And within there it was that representation as much __________________ 257 00:11:59.485 --> 00:12:03.725 as I could to say it's not always a mom and dad 258 00:12:03.745 --> 00:12:06.285 and two children that live in a house. 259 00:12:07.305 --> 00:12:08.965 Um, and that is okay. 260 00:12:09.385 --> 00:12:12.685 I'm not saying that that that is, that is absolutely fine, 261 00:12:13.305 --> 00:12:15.605 but I think it's very important that 262 00:12:16.455 --> 00:12:21.085 every single child is able to see themselves within a book. 263 00:12:21.515 --> 00:12:24.565 Yeah. And it touches that sweet spot for children. 264 00:12:25.265 --> 00:12:27.245 We all, all the listeners will recognize this, 265 00:12:27.245 --> 00:12:30.765 that it's actually all about children's self-esteem, 266 00:12:31.085 --> 00:12:32.085 children's self-worth, 267 00:12:32.265 --> 00:12:33.485 and all of us that have worked 268 00:12:33.485 --> 00:12:36.965 with children in whatever capacity, it's all about 269 00:12:37.145 --> 00:12:42.005 how can we make the life of this child better? 270 00:12:42.435 --> 00:12:44.965 What do we bring to the table as an educator? 271 00:12:45.985 --> 00:12:47.005 You know, as a teacher, 272 00:12:48.625 --> 00:12:51.645 and I always share this when I'm being interviewed, 273 00:12:51.645 --> 00:12:53.565 there's research by Dr. 274 00:12:53.935 --> 00:12:57.725 Rudin Bishop, and it was done in the nineties, 275 00:12:57.945 --> 00:12:59.125 30 years ago. 276 00:12:59.425 --> 00:13:01.605 And the research, quite simply, 277 00:13:02.005 --> 00:13:03.525 I always say I'm like a translator 278 00:13:03.585 --> 00:13:05.085 to all this academia work. 279 00:13:05.715 --> 00:13:08.805 Yeah. It's mirrors, windows and sliding doors. 280 00:13:09.585 --> 00:13:12.285 So the mirrors is, is that children are able 281 00:13:12.285 --> 00:13:15.285 to see themselves in the book, like your daughter Ivy, 282 00:13:16.145 --> 00:13:18.525 in terms, because I talk about donorship, you can say, well, 283 00:13:18.525 --> 00:13:20.725 okay, this looks like my family, like me 284 00:13:20.725 --> 00:13:22.925 with my mommy donor, et cetera. 285 00:13:23.785 --> 00:13:26.405 And then for other children, it's okay, 286 00:13:26.405 --> 00:13:28.805 this doesn't look like me or my family. 287 00:13:29.425 --> 00:13:30.525 And then we have the windows 288 00:13:30.785 --> 00:13:34.485 and that beginning of the curiosity happens to start looking 289 00:13:34.485 --> 00:13:38.165 through that curiosity to think, oh, 290 00:13:38.195 --> 00:13:39.605 this isn't like my family, 291 00:13:39.865 --> 00:13:41.365 but there's a little bit of similarities, 292 00:13:41.385 --> 00:13:42.565 but there's some differences. 293 00:13:43.545 --> 00:13:45.205 And then the sliding doors. 294 00:13:45.945 --> 00:13:48.925 So they go into that world and then really 295 00:13:48.945 --> 00:13:52.165 and truly look at those differences and experiences. 296 00:13:52.985 --> 00:13:55.285 So one of the things I always say, especially with jojo 297 00:13:55.285 --> 00:13:58.725 and Brown Grand and some of my books, they're not just for 298 00:13:59.715 --> 00:14:01.445 this particular child. 299 00:14:01.625 --> 00:14:03.885 So they're not just for black and brown children. 300 00:14:03.885 --> 00:14:06.325 They're not just for children who may be raised 301 00:14:06.875 --> 00:14:11.645 with two moms, two dads, um, kinship care, et cetera. 302 00:14:12.275 --> 00:14:15.645 It's for every single child for children to have 303 00:14:15.645 --> 00:14:19.605 that understanding where they are on that global Yes. 304 00:14:20.025 --> 00:14:22.485 On within that global village. 305 00:14:23.025 --> 00:14:27.805 And I always say diverse books are even more important 306 00:14:28.545 --> 00:14:31.845 for children who do not live in a diverse area. _________________ 307 00:14:32.315 --> 00:14:33.925 Very important, you know? 308 00:14:34.515 --> 00:14:35.845 Yeah, I to totally agree. 309 00:14:35.985 --> 00:14:37.765 And I know for me, uh, 310 00:14:38.755 --> 00:14:41.245 when like if you look on our bookshelf, we've got 311 00:14:41.345 --> 00:14:43.685 so many different books about different family makeups 312 00:14:43.705 --> 00:14:46.365 and we're always reading about different families 313 00:14:46.385 --> 00:14:47.885 and different situations and things, 314 00:14:47.985 --> 00:14:51.420 but often some of the more difficult conversations I'll have 315 00:14:51.420 --> 00:14:53.525 to have with Ivy's around what her friends are asking her. 316 00:14:54.185 --> 00:14:55.285 So it is 317 00:14:55.355 --> 00:14:58.485 that maybe those stories aren't being read in the other 318 00:14:58.685 --> 00:15:00.485 children's homes or they might not have an understanding 319 00:15:00.485 --> 00:15:01.725 of why she hasn't got a dad. 320 00:15:02.345 --> 00:15:04.565 So, and like you said, like my family are in Wales 321 00:15:04.565 --> 00:15:06.645 and it's a very different situation up there again 322 00:15:06.645 --> 00:15:09.525 that it's like adults are constantly asking me 323 00:15:09.605 --> 00:15:12.205 and being like, what my goodness, I've never heard of that. 324 00:15:12.205 --> 00:15:15.245 Whereas in East London it's, there's loads of us, so, 325 00:15:15.825 --> 00:15:16.825 So yeah. 326 00:15:16.995 --> 00:15:18.885 Yeah, absolutely. And geography's 327 00:15:18.885 --> 00:15:20.285 always interesting, isn't it? 328 00:15:20.355 --> 00:15:23.885 That comes back to my point that every single child. 329 00:15:23.885 --> 00:15:27.585 So I think what I would say is that it's about, you know, 330 00:15:27.705 --> 00:15:29.065 then having maybe conversations 331 00:15:29.455 --> 00:15:33.905 with your child's nurseries in school about then the value 332 00:15:33.925 --> 00:15:35.945 of having diverse books in terms of 333 00:15:35.945 --> 00:15:37.345 that conversation starter. 334 00:15:37.365 --> 00:15:41.065 And I know with my family, your family, you know, 335 00:15:41.225 --> 00:15:42.465 a manager in an early years setting 336 00:15:42.465 --> 00:15:45.265 because of her background with her children, 337 00:15:45.525 --> 00:15:46.665 it was a blended family. 338 00:15:46.935 --> 00:15:50.585 Like she said, she used the book as a way 339 00:15:51.245 --> 00:15:55.625 of sharing with her child about their family background. 340 00:15:55.765 --> 00:15:59.345 So it wasn't, you know, you are donor, it wasn't 341 00:15:59.375 --> 00:16:02.305 that your dad actually isn't your dad, that's your stepdad. 342 00:16:03.445 --> 00:16:05.945 You know, it wasn't that we are a two mom family, 343 00:16:06.205 --> 00:16:09.105 it was using that book as a way of storytelling 344 00:16:09.645 --> 00:16:11.545 to have those open-ended conversations. 345 00:16:12.015 --> 00:16:15.385 Then bringing it back to, you know, look at this, 346 00:16:15.385 --> 00:16:18.425 every family is different, every family is unique 347 00:16:18.425 --> 00:16:19.465 and this is our family. 348 00:16:20.565 --> 00:16:24.585 And so I really do feel that's, the books are super 349 00:16:25.185 --> 00:16:27.065 powerful, um, 350 00:16:27.365 --> 00:16:30.465 and I think we'd sometimes take it for granted whether 351 00:16:30.465 --> 00:16:33.585 or not it's a fiction book or a nonfiction book, how much 352 00:16:34.265 --> 00:16:37.745 learning and um, understanding 353 00:16:37.885 --> 00:16:40.625 and empathy that we can share 354 00:16:40.895 --> 00:16:44.665 with children from reading just one book, you know? 355 00:16:45.525 --> 00:16:46.745 That's it. Yeah. Um, 356 00:16:46.765 --> 00:16:49.425 and also, I know in your books just give a little bit 357 00:16:49.425 --> 00:16:52.025 of shout out that you've got guidance and questions 358 00:16:52.165 --> 00:16:53.985 and things for practitioners 359 00:16:54.055 --> 00:16:56.185 that then they can think about when they're sharing those 360 00:16:56.185 --> 00:16:57.305 books too, which is really useful. 361 00:16:58.785 --> 00:17:00.945 Absolutely. And in my skin, your Skin 362 00:17:00.945 --> 00:17:02.185 and my family, your family, 363 00:17:02.515 --> 00:17:04.385 there is the glossary at the back. 364 00:17:04.885 --> 00:17:09.025 And then I have also two created free resources 365 00:17:09.885 --> 00:17:11.945 for both of them that's on, you know, 366 00:17:12.205 --> 00:17:15.065 to explore further in terms of conversations 367 00:17:16.045 --> 00:17:17.985 and talking about resources. 368 00:17:18.225 --> 00:17:22.905 I created, um, for my publisher Ladybird 369 00:17:23.735 --> 00:17:27.465 last year, a free early years reading timeline. 370 00:17:28.285 --> 00:17:30.385 And one can get it as a hard copy. 371 00:17:31.085 --> 00:17:32.745 I'm just trying to look, can I find it 372 00:17:32.745 --> 00:17:34.745 around here in notes in my bag downstairs? 373 00:17:35.605 --> 00:17:38.985 And so we can put that up for anybody. 374 00:17:39.085 --> 00:17:40.585 So if you can, if you just Google, 375 00:17:41.195 --> 00:17:44.105 there are other search engines out there, um, 376 00:17:45.115 --> 00:17:46.225 early, yeah. 377 00:17:46.415 --> 00:17:48.465 Lady Bird, early years reading timeline, 378 00:17:48.565 --> 00:17:50.045 and it goes from birth to five. 379 00:17:50.065 --> 00:17:53.205 So again, using my early years expertise, you know, 380 00:17:53.225 --> 00:17:56.405 if your child is three, this is 381 00:17:56.515 --> 00:17:58.765 what they're doing developmentally, 382 00:17:59.585 --> 00:18:01.525 and then these are then some top tips. 383 00:18:01.625 --> 00:18:02.925 So again, a lot of the, 384 00:18:02.925 --> 00:18:05.445 what I do is I'm always thinking away, oh, 385 00:18:05.885 --> 00:18:07.885 I could probably create a resource for that. 386 00:18:09.085 --> 00:18:11.525 I could just to make it, you know, 387 00:18:11.525 --> 00:18:13.365 because sometimes some educators 388 00:18:13.365 --> 00:18:14.805 and teachers think, oh, this is really good, 389 00:18:14.825 --> 00:18:17.485 but how are we gonna translate this into practice 390 00:18:18.065 --> 00:18:19.525 for children, you know? 391 00:18:20.435 --> 00:18:21.525 Yeah. That's good. Um, 392 00:18:21.565 --> 00:18:23.005 I think you've covered my next question, Laura. 393 00:18:23.225 --> 00:18:25.165 So I was just gonna say, what's your advice 394 00:18:25.225 --> 00:18:28.765 to practitioners in setting about how they use story 395 00:18:28.765 --> 00:18:29.765 with children and families? 396 00:18:29.765 --> 00:18:31.805 So I dunno if you wanna add anything to that. Yeah, 397 00:18:31.885 --> 00:18:33.965 I think, yeah, I think it's about finding it. 398 00:18:34.045 --> 00:18:36.925 I think coming back to, again, early years starting 399 00:18:36.955 --> 00:18:39.605 with the child, that's, that's always our mantra. 400 00:18:39.735 --> 00:18:41.685 Start with the child. You can't go wrong. 401 00:18:42.585 --> 00:18:45.445 And what are your children's, what are the, 402 00:18:45.505 --> 00:18:46.605 that's your key children? 403 00:18:46.835 --> 00:18:48.325 What are they're interested in? 404 00:18:49.265 --> 00:18:51.885 You know, is it anything that's going on for that child? 405 00:18:51.985 --> 00:18:54.085 Is it bereavement? How can you use fiction books 406 00:18:54.085 --> 00:18:55.205 and nonfiction books? 407 00:18:56.105 --> 00:18:59.445 But I always sort of sit on the fence a little bit 408 00:18:59.445 --> 00:19:04.165 with following children's interest a hundred percent 409 00:19:05.025 --> 00:19:07.685 in terms of what we were just previously talking about. 410 00:19:07.685 --> 00:19:11.205 Because if it's a child, you are following their interests 411 00:19:11.385 --> 00:19:16.125 and they don't live in that diverse area, um, 412 00:19:16.235 --> 00:19:19.965 they're not going to be exposed to the diversity 413 00:19:20.305 --> 00:19:22.525 and inclusion within children's books. 414 00:19:23.115 --> 00:19:27.645 Yeah. So I would say that that's the reason why educators 415 00:19:27.645 --> 00:19:32.525 and te must have those propagations within their setting. 416 00:19:32.665 --> 00:19:34.525 Yes, you have your continuous provision 417 00:19:34.525 --> 00:19:37.725 and a term that I use, which is Sainsbury's old strap line, 418 00:19:37.725 --> 00:19:40.885 heading, try something new today. 419 00:19:41.145 --> 00:19:43.845 So you've got your continuous provision, what's going 420 00:19:43.845 --> 00:19:47.205 to be new for your children today, as well 421 00:19:47.205 --> 00:19:48.925 as using books within that. 422 00:19:49.505 --> 00:19:51.285 So yes, follow children's interest, 423 00:19:51.285 --> 00:19:54.365 but you cannot a hundred percent, you have to plant those 424 00:19:54.905 --> 00:19:59.205 cheeky propagations where they're going to be learning 425 00:19:59.775 --> 00:20:03.565 about other cultures, other families, et cetera. 426 00:20:03.995 --> 00:20:05.325 Yeah, no, that's really important. 427 00:20:05.385 --> 00:20:08.205 That's really important. Um, I've heard you mention 428 00:20:08.305 --> 00:20:11.525 as well in other chats, uh, the importance of the voice 429 00:20:11.525 --> 00:20:13.525 of the child, which links really nicely 430 00:20:13.525 --> 00:20:15.085 with this conversation about kind 431 00:20:15.085 --> 00:20:16.485 of following children's interests. 432 00:20:17.065 --> 00:20:18.925 How do you interpret this 433 00:20:18.945 --> 00:20:21.765 and what's your advice to settings to make sure 434 00:20:21.765 --> 00:20:23.405 that they're supporting individual children? 435 00:20:24.655 --> 00:20:26.545 Yeah, I think on my trials, I see there, 436 00:20:26.545 --> 00:20:28.305 there's great practice out there 437 00:20:28.305 --> 00:20:31.145 and we're probably preaching to the converted here 438 00:20:31.145 --> 00:20:32.425 with the, the listeners. 439 00:20:33.325 --> 00:20:35.825 And not to sound patronizing, 440 00:20:36.085 --> 00:20:40.825 but I think it's really understanding your key children. 441 00:20:40.965 --> 00:20:44.225 And it brings me back to Edina Goldsmith's work on 442 00:20:44.925 --> 00:20:48.485 the key person approach and attachments. 443 00:20:48.755 --> 00:20:53.405 It's more than observing a child can hold a pencil today, 444 00:20:54.345 --> 00:20:58.085 you know, what they had, um, for lunch, snack time. 445 00:20:59.075 --> 00:21:02.925 It's really knowing your key children inside out 446 00:21:02.925 --> 00:21:06.685 and having that level of professional curiosity, um, 447 00:21:06.955 --> 00:21:10.285 knowing about their family, who the child lives with, 448 00:21:11.765 --> 00:21:13.605 recognizing that sometimes on a Monday, 449 00:21:13.995 --> 00:21:15.365 that child comes in crying. 450 00:21:15.805 --> 00:21:18.645 I was in a, a school last week in an office visit 451 00:21:18.665 --> 00:21:20.645 and I said with, I stood at the gate 452 00:21:20.645 --> 00:21:22.765 with the head teacher welcoming the children, 453 00:21:23.305 --> 00:21:25.405 and there was a child that came in a bit flat. 454 00:21:25.985 --> 00:21:28.485 And I said to that teacher, I'd be interesting to see what 455 00:21:28.485 --> 00:21:30.525 that child's day is gonna be looking like, 456 00:21:30.995 --> 00:21:34.125 because the child that will speak volumes, how 457 00:21:34.125 --> 00:21:37.685 that child is coming in at the beginning of the day. 458 00:21:37.945 --> 00:21:39.925 So when I'm talking about the voice of the child, 459 00:21:40.185 --> 00:21:42.725 the the child age stage 460 00:21:42.725 --> 00:21:45.565 and ability approach may not be able to verbally tell you 461 00:21:46.425 --> 00:21:50.565 how they're feeling because the child may have, um, um, 462 00:21:51.165 --> 00:21:52.205 a disability or, 463 00:21:52.265 --> 00:21:54.605 or special needs where they can't vocalize that. 464 00:21:55.195 --> 00:21:57.285 It's picking up everything in terms of 465 00:21:57.285 --> 00:21:59.885 how they're interacting with other children, 466 00:22:00.035 --> 00:22:01.085 with other parents. 467 00:22:02.345 --> 00:22:05.565 And really using that to say, well, 468 00:22:05.625 --> 00:22:08.805 how can I support this child? _________________ 469 00:22:09.435 --> 00:22:11.845 Sometimes it could be just sitting down 470 00:22:11.845 --> 00:22:14.765 and having a snuggling with that child and soothing them 471 00:22:14.765 --> 00:22:16.645 because there may be something traumatic going on 472 00:22:16.645 --> 00:22:17.685 for that child at home. 473 00:22:18.945 --> 00:22:22.325 And I, it brings me in there about the voice of the child, 474 00:22:23.265 --> 00:22:26.365 um, one of my all time favorite books for the last four 475 00:22:26.365 --> 00:22:29.765 or five years by Dr. Bruce per Oprah Winfrey. 476 00:22:30.275 --> 00:22:32.245 What happened to you? Yeah. 477 00:22:32.305 --> 00:22:35.125 And I share that a lot within training, coming back 478 00:22:35.125 --> 00:22:37.285 to the voice of the child rather than saying, 479 00:22:37.345 --> 00:22:39.885 if the child's having is being 480 00:22:39.965 --> 00:22:42.365 dysregulated, what's wrong with you? 481 00:22:42.505 --> 00:22:46.165 Taking it back to that empathy, what happened to you? 482 00:22:47.325 --> 00:22:49.765 'cause as we know, all behavior is communication. 483 00:22:50.505 --> 00:22:51.925 So that professional curiosity, 484 00:22:52.315 --> 00:22:54.045 what is going on for this child? 485 00:22:54.835 --> 00:22:56.365 What happened to you? _______ 486 00:22:57.225 --> 00:23:01.005 And what can I do as this child's key person 487 00:23:01.145 --> 00:23:04.925 to make sure this child is emotionally safe, knowing where 488 00:23:04.925 --> 00:23:06.725 that child is at in their development? 489 00:23:06.915 --> 00:23:09.445 What do I need to do to support them more, for instance, 490 00:23:09.445 --> 00:23:10.885 with their communication 491 00:23:10.885 --> 00:23:12.845 and language, with their physical development. 492 00:23:13.865 --> 00:23:15.885 So really it's like a, 493 00:23:16.005 --> 00:23:19.005 a personal plan for that child. 494 00:23:19.245 --> 00:23:22.245 I quite like that. Actually, that might have 495 00:23:22.245 --> 00:23:24.845 to be on a slide for my next keynote colleagues. 496 00:23:25.265 --> 00:23:28.685 That's good. That personal plan. Let's make a note of that. 497 00:23:28.715 --> 00:23:30.405 I've got short term memory colleagues, 498 00:23:30.545 --> 00:23:32.285 I'm writing it down. Take a 499 00:23:32.285 --> 00:23:35.165 Little clip out for you, we can add it, add to your 500 00:23:35.165 --> 00:23:36.165 Back stuff. Yeah, 501 00:23:36.165 --> 00:23:37.445 that's right. I can use that. 502 00:23:37.805 --> 00:23:40.325 Actually, I love using video clips in a keynote. 503 00:23:40.915 --> 00:23:43.645 That personal plan. Amazing. Yeah, 504 00:23:43.645 --> 00:23:44.645 That's it. And 505 00:23:44.645 --> 00:23:46.685 actually what jumps out to me about 506 00:23:46.685 --> 00:23:49.725 what you're saying is that earliest practitioners are often 507 00:23:49.795 --> 00:23:53.925 very good at that, particularly in settings where 508 00:23:54.475 --> 00:23:56.125 there's a real ethos for play 509 00:23:56.225 --> 00:23:57.565 and they have that time to do that. 510 00:23:58.065 --> 00:24:02.845 So I think that sometimes when things are a lot more formal 511 00:24:03.105 --> 00:24:05.245 and there's a lot more structure to a day, 512 00:24:05.245 --> 00:24:07.485 and there maybe isn't that time to go, do you know what, 513 00:24:07.625 --> 00:24:09.685 I'm just gonna sit and have 10 minutes with this child 514 00:24:10.145 --> 00:24:12.085 and you're not having to run off to a session 515 00:24:12.305 --> 00:24:14.645 or, then I think that's actually something 516 00:24:14.645 --> 00:24:16.205 that's really important and often something 517 00:24:16.205 --> 00:24:19.325 that we do really well in early years as practitioners, 518 00:24:19.325 --> 00:24:23.165 that we have time for children to really engage with them. 519 00:24:23.465 --> 00:24:24.525 But I don't 520 00:24:24.555 --> 00:24:25.685 Yeah, I agree with you. 521 00:24:25.765 --> 00:24:27.165 I I think that's really good. 522 00:24:27.165 --> 00:24:30.605 And then sometimes the busyness of the day. Yeah. 523 00:24:30.785 --> 00:24:32.765 And I've done training before where I've, 524 00:24:32.795 --> 00:24:36.125 I've got educators, I've set them sort 525 00:24:36.125 --> 00:24:39.725 of like a propagation a call to action, to, to really 526 00:24:40.355 --> 00:24:42.165 look at what they're doing during the day, 527 00:24:42.785 --> 00:24:45.165 how many times are they stopping, is it necessary? 528 00:24:45.945 --> 00:24:49.205 And that's why I'm a great advocate of when Eleanor 529 00:24:49.795 --> 00:24:52.885 Goldsmith actually talked about the key person time. 530 00:24:53.825 --> 00:24:57.125 So look at, you know, I've seen some, some settings 531 00:24:57.125 --> 00:24:58.565 and schools do it really well. 532 00:24:58.665 --> 00:25:00.485 So either just before lunch 533 00:25:01.345 --> 00:25:04.165 or in the morning, it could just be reading a book 534 00:25:04.195 --> 00:25:05.205 with your key children 535 00:25:05.265 --> 00:25:06.845 and it creates that sense of belonging 536 00:25:06.845 --> 00:25:08.405 so children know that they belong. 537 00:25:09.065 --> 00:25:10.765 And there's sometimes that bud up 538 00:25:10.765 --> 00:25:13.245 where two key persons come together with their group 539 00:25:13.245 --> 00:25:17.365 of children, and children know that this is their group, 540 00:25:17.395 --> 00:25:20.165 that this is their, their sense of belonging 541 00:25:20.165 --> 00:25:21.765 and have that time to check in. 542 00:25:21.825 --> 00:25:25.085 And, and that's what I would get, um, colleagues 543 00:25:25.085 --> 00:25:26.725 who are listening to this to think about 544 00:25:27.265 --> 00:25:28.965 how many times throughout the course of the day 545 00:25:29.665 --> 00:25:33.165 do they sit down with their children to have that check in. 546 00:25:33.905 --> 00:25:36.645 Are you okay? And it can sometimes be five minutes, 547 00:25:36.785 --> 00:25:38.725 10 minutes and then, you know, choose a time 548 00:25:39.835 --> 00:25:42.845 that suits the rhythm and the flow of your day. 549 00:25:43.065 --> 00:25:47.155 But I think in order for, you know, yes, it is good 550 00:25:47.155 --> 00:25:49.675 to be open planned, yes, it is good for children to have 551 00:25:49.675 --> 00:25:52.195 that free flow, but we still need to have that bit 552 00:25:52.195 --> 00:25:54.915 of structure in there for some, again, 553 00:25:54.915 --> 00:25:56.555 that's gonna benefit a lot of children. 554 00:25:57.255 --> 00:26:02.195 So I think the same time every day for that key person time, 555 00:26:02.195 --> 00:26:03.875 because I've been into some settings 556 00:26:03.935 --> 00:26:05.995 and the story, it is just too big. 557 00:26:05.995 --> 00:26:09.515 There's too many children. And I then recommend 558 00:26:09.665 --> 00:26:11.755 that it needs to be smaller groups. 559 00:26:12.135 --> 00:26:15.195 Why don't you use this time to have your key personal time? 560 00:26:15.575 --> 00:26:16.575 You know? 561 00:26:16.975 --> 00:26:17.875 And that fits really nicely 562 00:26:18.155 --> 00:26:18.995 actually with the next question. 563 00:26:19.535 --> 00:26:22.595 Um, because lots of our settings are talking about rising 564 00:26:22.595 --> 00:26:24.715 numbers of children with additional needs. 565 00:26:25.295 --> 00:26:26.955 Um, and I know this is a topic 566 00:26:26.955 --> 00:26:29.395 that you are really passionate about, um, 567 00:26:29.615 --> 00:26:31.875 and that you've supported many settings with this, 568 00:26:32.335 --> 00:26:35.355 so I'd kind of love to hear about any advice you've got 569 00:26:35.585 --> 00:26:36.795 practitioners out there 570 00:26:37.455 --> 00:26:38.835 and have you used story 571 00:26:39.055 --> 00:26:40.795 to support children with additional needs? 572 00:26:43.405 --> 00:26:47.545 Um, yes. I, I, I have definitely. 573 00:26:47.725 --> 00:26:49.185 So, and I think, again, 574 00:26:49.185 --> 00:26:53.945 because of my son, me being dyslexic, having, um, 575 00:26:54.575 --> 00:26:55.785 more one-on-ones. 576 00:26:56.045 --> 00:26:57.465 And for instance, I was in a setting, 577 00:26:58.285 --> 00:27:02.025 and again, this child was probably about three and a half, 578 00:27:02.165 --> 00:27:04.185 and we were just sitting down looking at books, 579 00:27:04.685 --> 00:27:06.025 but using board books. 580 00:27:06.405 --> 00:27:09.545 So these books, quote unquote, were baby books. 581 00:27:10.205 --> 00:27:14.785 And this child just loved lifting the flap in terms 582 00:27:15.005 --> 00:27:16.585 of that cause and effect. 583 00:27:17.285 --> 00:27:20.825 And that was okay for that child with this book. 584 00:27:20.825 --> 00:27:23.385 And then we went on to other similar board books. 585 00:27:24.365 --> 00:27:27.185 So I think again, for, for books for Children 586 00:27:27.335 --> 00:27:29.345 with disability and special needs, 587 00:27:29.465 --> 00:27:30.785 I think they are fantastic. 588 00:27:31.845 --> 00:27:34.105 But it's about finding those books 589 00:27:34.165 --> 00:27:36.625 and allowing the child, depending on their need 590 00:27:36.625 --> 00:27:39.905 to self-select their own books to read. 591 00:27:40.285 --> 00:27:44.585 You know? So I think, um, I think definitely so, 592 00:27:44.685 --> 00:27:47.425 and they're not equally true with my books when I'm working 593 00:27:47.425 --> 00:27:50.545 with the illustrator visually, making sure 594 00:27:51.255 --> 00:27:55.345 that we can see visual representation of disabilities, 595 00:27:55.345 --> 00:27:57.465 you know, in terms of a hurt hearing aid, 596 00:27:58.385 --> 00:28:02.305 somebody using a wheelchair, somebody that may have, um, 597 00:28:03.285 --> 00:28:05.545 you know, in terms of there's a disability on their 598 00:28:05.645 --> 00:28:06.985 arm or their leg. 599 00:28:07.725 --> 00:28:11.425 So visually it's there in terms of that inclusion, 600 00:28:11.425 --> 00:28:14.485 because when I was growing up, it wasn't, 601 00:28:14.895 --> 00:28:16.645 there wasn't any disability. 602 00:28:17.145 --> 00:28:21.725 It was just white, white children, white families 603 00:28:21.795 --> 00:28:25.405 that live in a house and a book now that I love. 604 00:28:25.805 --> 00:28:30.645 I, I actually on my podcast interviewed the, um, the author, 605 00:28:31.065 --> 00:28:32.285 the Nisha Butterfield, 606 00:28:32.285 --> 00:28:34.325 and it's called the Flower Bark Block. 607 00:28:34.665 --> 00:28:37.285 Mm-hmm. It's like a modern day jack in the Beans stalk. 608 00:28:37.505 --> 00:28:42.445 And it's set in a, um, a council estate tower block. 609 00:28:42.985 --> 00:28:45.045 So the, the flowers grow at the top 610 00:28:45.045 --> 00:28:49.285 because in plus apartments where, you know, a couple 611 00:28:49.305 --> 00:28:51.205 of million pound apartment blocks, 612 00:28:51.865 --> 00:28:56.085 you may have a flower garden near my publisher in Voxel 613 00:28:56.635 --> 00:28:59.405 Penguin, Le Penguin, random House, Ladybird, 614 00:28:59.675 --> 00:29:01.765 there's two blocks of flats, apartment, 615 00:29:01.765 --> 00:29:04.045 apartment blocks you'd say be posh. 616 00:29:04.465 --> 00:29:07.605 And, um, there's like a swimming pool that goes across 617 00:29:07.705 --> 00:29:08.965 to apartment blocks. 618 00:29:09.185 --> 00:29:12.045 You look up me, oh, I've seen this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 619 00:29:12.225 --> 00:29:14.765 So again, it's thinking things like that. 620 00:29:15.225 --> 00:29:16.245 You don't see that. 621 00:29:16.885 --> 00:29:18.765 I know the question was on disability, 622 00:29:18.985 --> 00:29:21.795 but I think on representation 623 00:29:22.375 --> 00:29:24.795 of working class communities. 624 00:29:25.415 --> 00:29:27.315 So in Anisha's book it was all about, well, 625 00:29:27.555 --> 00:29:28.715 actually we don't see this. 626 00:29:28.855 --> 00:29:33.835 We, they can say, have all the excuses for not having, uh, 627 00:29:34.955 --> 00:29:38.395 a garden on top of a tower block in a council state, 628 00:29:38.535 --> 00:29:41.885 but in an apartment block, it's, yeah, 629 00:29:41.885 --> 00:29:43.125 okay, we'll we'll do that. 630 00:29:43.865 --> 00:29:45.565 How wonderful it is for wellbeing. 631 00:29:45.745 --> 00:29:47.725 So it's about, her book is fantastic, 632 00:29:47.985 --> 00:29:51.165 and equally to my book, um, Myron Marley 633 00:29:51.705 --> 00:29:54.445 and the Great Big Tide I include within the, um, 634 00:29:55.465 --> 00:29:56.765 the street sweeper crew. 635 00:29:57.105 --> 00:30:00.005 So again, working class careers, you know, 636 00:30:00.825 --> 00:30:01.825 That's it. Yeah. And _________________ 637 00:30:01.825 --> 00:30:03.765 one of the, um, we did a talk recently 638 00:30:03.785 --> 00:30:06.085 and we, there was a lot of feedback 639 00:30:06.085 --> 00:30:09.045 and a lot of kind of information about just people being 640 00:30:09.725 --> 00:30:11.925 represented, just doing daily things. 641 00:30:12.715 --> 00:30:13.845 Exactly, Yeah. 642 00:30:13.985 --> 00:30:16.885 Not like, you know, okay, this person's black 643 00:30:16.885 --> 00:30:17.965 and we're gonna talk about that, 644 00:30:18.145 --> 00:30:19.525 or, you know, this person's disabled 645 00:30:19.545 --> 00:30:20.685 and we're gonna talk about that. 646 00:30:20.865 --> 00:30:23.965 Or, you know, this is my hair or this is my wheelchair, 647 00:30:24.025 --> 00:30:25.045 or do you know what I mean? 648 00:30:25.045 --> 00:30:27.125 It was kind of that this is just someone playing 649 00:30:27.125 --> 00:30:28.365 with their friends and having a 650 00:30:28.595 --> 00:30:29.595 Exactly. And 651 00:30:29.595 --> 00:30:30.925 equally with Jojo 652 00:30:30.925 --> 00:30:32.965 and Grand Grand, it's just their grandmother 653 00:30:33.145 --> 00:30:35.485 and a, a grandchild, ma 654 00:30:35.485 --> 00:30:36.525 and Marley, two children 655 00:30:36.665 --> 00:30:38.885 who live on an outdoor adventure playground. 656 00:30:39.625 --> 00:30:42.645 And I think that's, that's really good in terms of the, 657 00:30:42.985 --> 00:30:46.125 the joy, because I think if you strip it back 658 00:30:46.125 --> 00:30:50.445 to all communities, we all do similar things, ___________ 659 00:30:50.445 --> 00:30:52.205 different activities, you know? 660 00:30:53.065 --> 00:30:54.125 That's it. That's it. 661 00:30:54.585 --> 00:30:57.245 Um, I know that you are a big advocate for play. 662 00:30:57.385 --> 00:30:59.205 I'm just gonna jump onto the next question. 663 00:30:59.925 --> 00:31:01.925 I would love to hear more about your work 664 00:31:01.925 --> 00:31:03.245 as a commissioner on Raising the 665 00:31:03.245 --> 00:31:04.885 Nation National Inquiry into play. 666 00:31:05.425 --> 00:31:07.565 Um, the interim report was out in February, 667 00:31:07.585 --> 00:31:09.645 but I'd just love to hear like your take on it 668 00:31:09.645 --> 00:31:10.805 and some of the main messages 669 00:31:10.805 --> 00:31:12.605 that you think maybe we should be talking about. 670 00:31:14.245 --> 00:31:16.585 So yes, Kate, I am one of the commissioners 671 00:31:16.605 --> 00:31:17.665 and I'm delighted 672 00:31:17.665 --> 00:31:20.825 because there's so many other experts on there. 673 00:31:21.735 --> 00:31:26.165 It's just a wonderful group of people like myself 674 00:31:26.185 --> 00:31:29.125 who are super passionate about play 675 00:31:29.905 --> 00:31:32.925 and looking at the reasons why 676 00:31:33.625 --> 00:31:37.045 that's not central to children's childhood. 677 00:31:38.065 --> 00:31:40.765 So some of the things the commissioner are looking at, 678 00:31:40.785 --> 00:31:44.405 so Paul Lin Lindley, who actually, um, 679 00:31:44.865 --> 00:31:49.365 he was the instigator for this report, um, 680 00:31:49.455 --> 00:31:53.165 who's a fantastic colleague who started off Ella's Kitchen, 681 00:31:53.215 --> 00:31:55.765 which is the food baby food brand, 682 00:31:56.225 --> 00:31:58.325 and is doing so many other fantastic things. 683 00:31:58.435 --> 00:32:01.245 He's got a book, which again, um, 684 00:32:01.575 --> 00:32:03.525 looks at the state of the, the nation. 685 00:32:03.995 --> 00:32:07.645 Yeah. So what we're looking at is learning through play, 686 00:32:08.425 --> 00:32:11.805 places to play the right to play time, 687 00:32:11.865 --> 00:32:15.405 to play digital play, and parents and play. 688 00:32:15.955 --> 00:32:20.765 Over the last year, we have been looking at that, um, 689 00:32:20.835 --> 00:32:22.485 there's been a call to evidence. 690 00:32:23.065 --> 00:32:26.245 So anybody was interested, we're able to submit 691 00:32:27.015 --> 00:32:29.005 their ideas and solutions. 692 00:32:29.655 --> 00:32:33.085 We've had online meetings with, with experts. 693 00:32:33.575 --> 00:32:35.085 We've had meetings as well. 694 00:32:35.905 --> 00:32:38.525 And I just feel it's, it's the right time 695 00:32:38.525 --> 00:32:42.365 to have this conversation in terms of, of childhood 696 00:32:43.585 --> 00:32:48.085 and some of the many issues that are going on for children 697 00:32:48.305 --> 00:32:49.645 and young people. 698 00:32:50.625 --> 00:32:52.685 We need to be bringing it back to play. 699 00:32:52.825 --> 00:32:54.965 And I think what's really good is that we're also 700 00:32:54.985 --> 00:32:59.005 to looking at, um, different communities. 701 00:32:59.865 --> 00:33:03.525 So for instance, one of the thing in the interim report was 702 00:33:03.595 --> 00:33:08.365 that children from underserved backgrounds 703 00:33:08.675 --> 00:33:10.645 have less opportunity to play 704 00:33:10.645 --> 00:33:13.765 because of not having that access to outside outdoor plane. 705 00:33:15.185 --> 00:33:17.245 And myself, because I'm quite old, 706 00:33:17.605 --> 00:33:20.405 I was raised in the Council of state, but we had a park. 707 00:33:20.825 --> 00:33:23.685 Mm-hmm. We had an adventure playground, 708 00:33:23.785 --> 00:33:27.085 and we just went outside to play. 709 00:33:27.735 --> 00:33:31.445 There was no, we used to make up games, we used 710 00:33:31.445 --> 00:33:32.805 to play run out. 711 00:33:32.985 --> 00:33:36.565 So, you know, using our, you know, in terms 712 00:33:36.565 --> 00:33:38.765 of our physical development, we were running, 713 00:33:38.865 --> 00:33:41.605 we were playing, we were, we had solutions. 714 00:33:42.265 --> 00:33:46.205 We didn't have much. But now children don't go out to play. 715 00:33:46.835 --> 00:33:50.805 There's no going to knock for your best friend, Mohamed 716 00:33:50.805 --> 00:33:51.805 and Fatima. 717 00:33:52.585 --> 00:33:54.405 And that's for a variety of reasons. 718 00:33:54.755 --> 00:33:56.885 Some of it is safety, you know, 719 00:33:56.885 --> 00:34:00.325 because a lot of parents are concerned with, with safety. 720 00:34:01.185 --> 00:34:05.245 Um, we used to take ourselves off to, to primary school, 721 00:34:05.955 --> 00:34:07.645 even though it was just across the road 722 00:34:07.785 --> 00:34:09.645 and different types of things. 723 00:34:09.845 --> 00:34:12.285 I think children are more protected now. 724 00:34:12.345 --> 00:34:15.325 So it's about how as a nation 725 00:34:16.545 --> 00:34:20.485 we can make children, um, that play central 726 00:34:20.665 --> 00:34:22.045 and within schools as well. 727 00:34:22.505 --> 00:34:25.845 So it's not just about, um, playtime 728 00:34:26.115 --> 00:34:29.005 because there are a lot of children who are denied play. 729 00:34:29.005 --> 00:34:31.845 And that used to happen to my son who's autistic. 730 00:34:32.425 --> 00:34:35.045 And as we know, that's the worst thing to do for children. 731 00:34:35.745 --> 00:34:38.315 Yes, yes. Is to restrict their play time 732 00:34:38.315 --> 00:34:39.715 because obviously you are going to get, 733 00:34:40.145 --> 00:34:41.715 they're gonna be even worse 734 00:34:41.715 --> 00:34:43.395 because they haven't had the opportunity 735 00:34:43.535 --> 00:34:45.035 to run it, run it off. 736 00:34:45.775 --> 00:34:50.155 And I saw on the socials when around the playtime thing, 737 00:34:50.725 --> 00:34:53.275 there was a couple of teachers commented on a different 738 00:34:53.755 --> 00:34:56.155 platforms and one said, oh, I bet you none 739 00:34:56.155 --> 00:34:58.155 of them have been a teacher writing that. 740 00:34:58.215 --> 00:34:59.315 And I thought, well, hello. 741 00:34:59.475 --> 00:35:00.795 I have, I didn't obviously comment 742 00:35:00.795 --> 00:35:03.115 because I didn't, it didn't serve me to comment. 743 00:35:03.275 --> 00:35:06.715 I was just reading these, um, reflections from others. 744 00:35:06.735 --> 00:35:08.995 And I thought, well, as a teacher she's got a valid point. 745 00:35:09.255 --> 00:35:13.395 But actually maybe it's an issue around personal 746 00:35:13.395 --> 00:35:16.435 and professional development for teachers 747 00:35:17.145 --> 00:35:19.915 looking at the biology of children, 748 00:35:20.425 --> 00:35:22.155 looking at child development 749 00:35:22.575 --> 00:35:24.955 and having, developing that understanding 750 00:35:24.955 --> 00:35:28.275 that actually you are making it a lot worse for children 751 00:35:29.335 --> 00:35:31.715 by not giving them playtime. 752 00:35:31.975 --> 00:35:34.035 But then equally too, it's looking at 753 00:35:34.145 --> 00:35:37.925 what play looks like within the classroom, not just at 754 00:35:37.955 --> 00:35:41.285 that designated playtime on why is it 755 00:35:41.285 --> 00:35:43.925 that playtime has shrunk, you know, 756 00:35:43.935 --> 00:35:46.325 we've got less, less playtime. 757 00:35:47.105 --> 00:35:51.885 Um, now we've, within schools, there's playing fields 758 00:35:52.515 --> 00:35:55.045 that have been sold off, you know, 759 00:35:55.425 --> 00:35:58.765 and equally too, how can we make sure that adults have 760 00:35:58.765 --> 00:36:00.685 that understanding about what play looks like 761 00:36:01.225 --> 00:36:04.885 and can adults still enjoy, enjoy play. 762 00:36:04.985 --> 00:36:06.605 So I think it's a, it is, 763 00:36:06.745 --> 00:36:09.765 the final report is coming out in June. 764 00:36:10.825 --> 00:36:13.485 And I, I'm, I'm hoping, 765 00:36:14.145 --> 00:36:15.525 and I'm really optimistic 766 00:36:16.275 --> 00:36:18.485 that the government will make changes. 767 00:36:18.825 --> 00:36:22.125 And the other thing to think about is United Nations, 768 00:36:22.125 --> 00:36:26.685 the rights of the child, the right to every child to be able 769 00:36:26.905 --> 00:36:28.525 to, to play. 770 00:36:29.065 --> 00:36:31.005 And I think we need to have 771 00:36:31.785 --> 00:36:34.325 to be brought into the conversations would be the Department 772 00:36:34.325 --> 00:36:35.645 of Education and offset. 773 00:36:35.705 --> 00:36:37.605 So offset in terms of when they're inspecting, 774 00:36:38.425 --> 00:36:41.125 but what changes can the Department of Education make 775 00:36:41.125 --> 00:36:42.405 to the national curriculum 776 00:36:43.345 --> 00:36:48.165 and the earliest foundation stage in terms of play, 777 00:36:49.035 --> 00:36:50.325 what we really mean 778 00:36:50.545 --> 00:36:54.085 and how are we making sure that we are being right, 779 00:36:54.995 --> 00:36:57.445 that we are, we are doing right by children. 780 00:36:58.515 --> 00:36:59.565 Yeah. Yeah. You're right. 781 00:36:59.625 --> 00:37:01.645 And, and I think there was something key you said there 782 00:37:01.645 --> 00:37:04.485 about actually about good play. 783 00:37:05.185 --> 00:37:07.965 Uh, it doesn't, yeah. I mean, often I know for me, _______________________ 784 00:37:08.195 --> 00:37:09.885 I've been looking for schools for my daughter 785 00:37:10.225 --> 00:37:12.445 and I've, I've visited some schools up in Wales 786 00:37:12.505 --> 00:37:14.725 who were doing amazing things with their curriculum 787 00:37:15.225 --> 00:37:17.365 around play and being up till seven. 788 00:37:17.425 --> 00:37:19.725 And I was thinking about possibly a move up to Wales 789 00:37:19.725 --> 00:37:21.525 because of the system for my daughter. 790 00:37:22.305 --> 00:37:25.045 But there were a lot of schools that I walked into 791 00:37:25.075 --> 00:37:27.365 that I was like, this isn't really play. 792 00:37:28.675 --> 00:37:31.005 Like, there was some amazing, amazing things happen, 793 00:37:31.745 --> 00:37:35.885 but I think it's that understanding of children being able 794 00:37:35.885 --> 00:37:38.845 to make choices and being able to have 795 00:37:38.845 --> 00:37:40.805 that real time engaging with their friends. 796 00:37:40.945 --> 00:37:43.685 And it's not just putting some jula on a 797 00:37:43.685 --> 00:37:45.325 table, do you know what I mean? 798 00:37:45.385 --> 00:37:47.685 Not that there's some great things about construction, 799 00:37:47.745 --> 00:37:52.205 but I think it's that real choice and good provision 800 00:37:52.545 --> 00:37:55.525 and actually having some really good quality time 801 00:37:56.305 --> 00:37:59.725 for children to, to play, I think is really key. 802 00:38:00.565 --> 00:38:01.805 Absolutely. And I think, I think 803 00:38:01.805 --> 00:38:04.725 what you hit the nail on the head there, um, Kate, 804 00:38:05.195 --> 00:38:08.405 it's about the adults understanding about what plays. 805 00:38:08.685 --> 00:38:12.365 'cause likewise, I've seen, um, situations in schools, 806 00:38:12.365 --> 00:38:14.565 early years, settings looking at photographs 807 00:38:14.565 --> 00:38:16.325 and thinking, well, that's not play. 808 00:38:17.085 --> 00:38:19.165 I think the conversation needs to start with, 809 00:38:19.165 --> 00:38:20.205 well, what is play? 810 00:38:21.345 --> 00:38:22.565 And you know, in terms 811 00:38:22.615 --> 00:38:25.925 where every single child against different cultures, 812 00:38:26.285 --> 00:38:29.565 'cause there's so many different layers to play as well. 813 00:38:29.665 --> 00:38:33.245 But I think what's crucial about this document, this um, 814 00:38:34.315 --> 00:38:39.165 this evidence gather gathering now period that we're in, is 815 00:38:40.245 --> 00:38:41.915 we're having a conversation about it. 816 00:38:41.915 --> 00:38:46.115 Because I feel that having a conversation is the beginning 817 00:38:46.815 --> 00:38:47.995 of making changes. ______________ 818 00:38:48.815 --> 00:38:50.875 Yes. Which I think is super important. 819 00:38:51.335 --> 00:38:55.755 And as I said, I am optimistic that changes will happen 820 00:38:56.455 --> 00:39:00.315 and every child gets to deserve a child, a childhood. 821 00:39:00.315 --> 00:39:03.115 Because also too equally it's, you know, 822 00:39:03.135 --> 00:39:04.835 for some parents financially, 823 00:39:05.345 --> 00:39:08.315 because we know for certain families they can take their 824 00:39:08.515 --> 00:39:11.835 children to have those play experiences. 825 00:39:11.895 --> 00:39:16.395 And for some children they're not go because financially, 826 00:39:17.535 --> 00:39:20.755 and as we know, there are some children that live in hotels, 827 00:39:20.815 --> 00:39:22.795 you've got four people 828 00:39:23.015 --> 00:39:24.835 or even sometimes six living in one room. 829 00:39:25.455 --> 00:39:27.795 And the impact on children's development. 830 00:39:28.375 --> 00:39:32.115 So we need to look at equity, we need to look at inclusion, 831 00:39:33.215 --> 00:39:36.995 we need to look at culture, we need to be looking at, um, 832 00:39:38.095 --> 00:39:41.315 how racism has an impact on how children play 833 00:39:42.055 --> 00:39:44.995 within their communities and safety as well. 834 00:39:45.335 --> 00:39:46.595 You know? Yeah. 835 00:39:46.815 --> 00:39:48.075 Um, we did a webinar once 836 00:39:48.075 --> 00:39:49.475 and we looked at the map 837 00:39:49.765 --> 00:39:52.275 where you could see play shrinking over the decades. 838 00:39:53.065 --> 00:39:55.995 Yeah. And it's, it's really interesting stuff when you think 839 00:39:55.995 --> 00:39:58.315 about like, our grandparents would've roamed for miles 840 00:39:58.335 --> 00:40:01.435 and gone fishing somewhere or, you know, gone out 841 00:40:01.495 --> 00:40:03.715 and sort of, you know, two, three miles down the road 842 00:40:03.715 --> 00:40:05.435 to see their friends and there would've been that freedom 843 00:40:05.455 --> 00:40:07.195 and it's just shrunk and shrunk 844 00:40:07.195 --> 00:40:08.755 and shrunk for children so they don't go 845 00:40:08.755 --> 00:40:09.835 past the end of the road anymore. 846 00:40:10.415 --> 00:40:11.915 But, but yeah. And there's many 847 00:40:11.915 --> 00:40:14.355 that will sit in on computers and screens and, 848 00:40:14.775 --> 00:40:16.835 and it's, it feels safer for the parent, 849 00:40:16.835 --> 00:40:18.155 doesn't it? And I get that. 850 00:40:18.185 --> 00:40:19.675 Exactly. And there's a lot 851 00:40:19.675 --> 00:40:21.195 of colleagues doing some groundwork. 852 00:40:21.315 --> 00:40:23.035 I think it started in Bristol initially 853 00:40:23.485 --> 00:40:25.475 where streets are closed off 854 00:40:25.815 --> 00:40:27.995 so there's no traffic going down. 855 00:40:28.575 --> 00:40:32.315 And I thought that's a really good idea for some children 856 00:40:32.535 --> 00:40:36.415 to know within that boundary, whether or not it's a street 857 00:40:36.475 --> 00:40:39.215 or a few, there's gonna be no cars going down 858 00:40:40.035 --> 00:40:43.215 and they can play, you know, make up games. 859 00:40:44.075 --> 00:40:46.975 And it's, you, we used to play this game in our park 860 00:40:47.705 --> 00:40:49.535 where you'd have, there was three swings 861 00:40:49.535 --> 00:40:52.335 and there was three baby swings that used to call them. 862 00:40:52.715 --> 00:40:53.775 So we'd sit on the swing 863 00:40:53.775 --> 00:40:56.655 and there was a little fence cornering off the swings. 864 00:40:57.575 --> 00:40:59.375 Somebody would be with a ball. Mm-hmm. 865 00:40:59.455 --> 00:41:03.095 You would have to kick the ball mm-hmm. Um, on the swing. 866 00:41:03.155 --> 00:41:04.815 So you'd got the person throwing it 867 00:41:04.915 --> 00:41:06.775 and that they might say, you don't know 868 00:41:06.875 --> 00:41:08.975 who they're gonna throw it to out of the three of you. 869 00:41:09.315 --> 00:41:10.855 And you would just kick the ball 870 00:41:11.235 --> 00:41:12.695 and the other people on the other bit 871 00:41:12.695 --> 00:41:14.695 of the fence would have to go and find the ball. 872 00:41:14.925 --> 00:41:18.455 Yeah. And we caught that game, the swing game. Yeah. 873 00:41:18.455 --> 00:41:19.495 Yeah. That's it. Yeah. 874 00:41:19.495 --> 00:41:20.895 We used to make it games and stuff, 875 00:41:21.075 --> 00:41:22.455 and I remember being a child 876 00:41:22.555 --> 00:41:24.535 and like running in to have your dinner 877 00:41:24.555 --> 00:41:25.975 and all your mates sitting on the curb 878 00:41:25.975 --> 00:41:27.135 outside waiting for you. 879 00:41:27.575 --> 00:41:30.215 Like Yeah. Like every night you would be playing 880 00:41:30.275 --> 00:41:31.295 out in the street, wouldn't you? 881 00:41:31.605 --> 00:41:32.895 Exactly. Absolutely. 882 00:41:32.965 --> 00:41:35.925 Especially now with, um, you know, we're coming into, 883 00:41:35.925 --> 00:41:39.125 depending on when the colleagues listen to this, um, 884 00:41:39.455 --> 00:41:43.245 we're coming into spring, summer, you would just be out. 885 00:41:43.695 --> 00:41:45.725 There would be games with water. 886 00:41:45.935 --> 00:41:49.245 There would be some you get up to mis We we would, I did, 887 00:41:49.265 --> 00:41:51.125 we did some things as children 888 00:41:51.915 --> 00:41:53.245 that we weren't supposed to do. 889 00:41:53.305 --> 00:41:55.845 But isn't that the value of childhood in terms of 890 00:41:56.385 --> 00:41:57.525 No, well that's not right. 891 00:41:57.705 --> 00:42:00.845 You learn, you make those rules up, you know, 892 00:42:00.865 --> 00:42:02.605 but no, that's gonna get us into travel. 893 00:42:03.035 --> 00:42:06.405 Yeah. And I, I remember there's a colleague called Dr. 894 00:42:06.585 --> 00:42:08.085 Jan White. I dunno if you know, she does a lot 895 00:42:08.085 --> 00:42:09.565 of work on outdoors. 896 00:42:10.315 --> 00:42:12.405 Okay. And I remember speaking to her once 897 00:42:12.405 --> 00:42:15.365 and she went to a conference, um, in Europe. _____________________ 898 00:42:15.745 --> 00:42:18.365 One of the professors, somebody was there from the insurance 899 00:42:18.755 --> 00:42:20.085 community Okay. 900 00:42:20.225 --> 00:42:21.445 Who did a keynote and said 901 00:42:21.445 --> 00:42:24.645 what they're finding there's a lot of claims coming through 902 00:42:24.665 --> 00:42:28.445 of children, not of young people, rather workplace 903 00:42:29.235 --> 00:42:31.445 because they're having too many accidents 904 00:42:31.445 --> 00:42:33.885 because they haven't learned Yeah. 905 00:42:33.985 --> 00:42:37.405 To regulate and to understand what a danger is. 906 00:42:37.865 --> 00:42:39.045 So we have a lot of children 907 00:42:39.185 --> 00:42:42.885 and who are gonna be getting into, um, 908 00:42:42.995 --> 00:42:45.845 adulthood without not assessing danger 909 00:42:46.745 --> 00:42:51.605 and play gives you that opportunity to assess danger. 910 00:42:52.305 --> 00:42:57.225 Yes. Yeah. So again, it is, yeah, it is a safeguarding, 911 00:42:57.225 --> 00:43:00.505 it is a, uh, a wellbeing, safety issue 912 00:43:00.505 --> 00:43:01.785 for children, isn't it, Ann? ____________________________ 913 00:43:02.405 --> 00:43:05.145 Um, will you tell me the name again? Laura, Dr. Jan. 914 00:43:05.845 --> 00:43:10.545 Jan White. She's done many books for Elia's Education 915 00:43:10.635 --> 00:43:12.665 where I'm the vice president for, 916 00:43:13.365 --> 00:43:17.065 and I think she's a visiting professor at one university. 917 00:43:17.345 --> 00:43:19.865 I don't know if she still does, you know, keynotes, 918 00:43:20.405 --> 00:43:24.105 but that was her thing was on outdoors. 919 00:43:24.205 --> 00:43:26.825 And I remember having a, a conversation with her 920 00:43:26.825 --> 00:43:30.305 and her sharing that with me about this conference. 921 00:43:30.305 --> 00:43:32.865 And it was interesting that they brought somebody in to say 922 00:43:33.575 --> 00:43:35.105 that children are having accent. 923 00:43:35.125 --> 00:43:38.145 And when, when Myron Marley is based on wide venture 924 00:43:38.145 --> 00:43:41.905 playground, when I had the launch, I had, um, 925 00:43:42.445 --> 00:43:46.505 the ex play workers there who worked there 40, 50 years ago. 926 00:43:47.525 --> 00:43:49.305 And we had hammers. 927 00:43:50.155 --> 00:43:53.145 There was no, probably no checking of health and safety. 928 00:43:53.325 --> 00:43:56.025 We used to use hammers. We, we used to make fires. 929 00:43:56.685 --> 00:43:58.385 And Maureen, when the leaders said, 930 00:43:58.685 --> 00:44:00.825 no child had an accident, the only child 931 00:44:00.825 --> 00:44:03.225 who had an accident was her own child. 932 00:44:03.645 --> 00:44:06.145 Mm-hmm. So that speaks volumes. 933 00:44:06.485 --> 00:44:09.145 We just assessed our own danger. Yes. 934 00:44:09.195 --> 00:44:13.665 You'd come home with scrapes and you were just full with mud 935 00:44:13.665 --> 00:44:15.625 and earth from the adventure playing ground 936 00:44:17.005 --> 00:44:19.225 and you just, we just cracked on. 937 00:44:19.815 --> 00:44:22.585 Yeah. Yeah. So I think within that play, 938 00:44:22.855 --> 00:44:26.345 it's about the wider thing on children's learning 939 00:44:26.365 --> 00:44:29.705 and development that happens when children are 940 00:44:29.705 --> 00:44:30.865 playing. You know, 941 00:44:31.385 --> 00:44:33.005 That's so interesting you say that. 942 00:44:33.185 --> 00:44:36.365 Um, so when I worked in schools, we developed a playground 943 00:44:36.365 --> 00:44:38.565 and a place where I worked and we had kind 944 00:44:38.565 --> 00:44:40.125 of hills put in big rocks. 945 00:44:40.505 --> 00:44:42.765 We had stream, we had a huge climbing tree, 946 00:44:43.005 --> 00:44:45.325 a huge big sandpit that they could dig big holes in. 947 00:44:45.825 --> 00:44:49.565 And um, there was a small patch of undeveloped playground 948 00:44:50.035 --> 00:44:51.525 that there was kind of where the parents would 949 00:44:51.525 --> 00:44:52.645 come in with the buggies in the gate. 950 00:44:52.945 --> 00:44:54.125 And we had one accident. 951 00:44:54.145 --> 00:44:55.205 And all the time I was there 952 00:44:55.385 --> 00:44:57.645 and the child fell over on the one little bit 953 00:44:57.645 --> 00:44:58.845 of undeveloped playground 954 00:44:58.845 --> 00:45:00.445 that was flat concrete and broke her arm. 955 00:45:01.025 --> 00:45:03.445 And we had all these rocks and climbing trees and all sorts, 956 00:45:03.445 --> 00:45:04.645 and we had no accidents on that. 957 00:45:04.825 --> 00:45:06.205 But yeah, so, 958 00:45:06.625 --> 00:45:08.845 and actually we used to work with an expert then, 959 00:45:08.845 --> 00:45:10.485 and he was saying that parents, 960 00:45:10.555 --> 00:45:12.805 they see these big climbing rocks and all this stuff 961 00:45:12.805 --> 00:45:13.965 and they get really scared of it, 962 00:45:13.985 --> 00:45:16.125 but he said there's no more danger in 963 00:45:16.125 --> 00:45:19.165 that than there is actually on a 90 degree concrete curb 964 00:45:19.165 --> 00:45:20.445 that they're walking past every 965 00:45:20.445 --> 00:45:21.485 single day at the end of the road. 966 00:45:22.145 --> 00:45:25.725 So yeah. And he said they're way more aware when they're 967 00:45:25.805 --> 00:45:28.405 climbing a rock, then they're out walking on a pavement. 968 00:45:29.065 --> 00:45:33.085 So Yeah. So that does make a lot of sense. Um, right. Okay. 969 00:45:33.345 --> 00:45:35.965 So we both share a belief in the power of writing. 970 00:45:36.585 --> 00:45:39.165 Um, as an author, I know you travel all over speaking 971 00:45:39.185 --> 00:45:41.325 to children and adults about the books that you write. 972 00:45:41.745 --> 00:45:46.245 Um, and recently you've launched a new podcast in response 973 00:45:46.425 --> 00:45:48.685 to the decline in love of books and reading. 974 00:45:49.625 --> 00:45:50.965 Can you tell me a little bit more about this 975 00:45:50.985 --> 00:45:52.245 and why it's so needed 976 00:45:52.745 --> 00:45:56.205 and how practitioners can encourage children's joy in books 977 00:45:56.505 --> 00:45:58.445 and this desire to write their own stories, 978 00:45:58.775 --> 00:46:00.365 which is kind of really important to us. 979 00:46:00.365 --> 00:46:01.365 It tells toolkit. 980 00:46:02.485 --> 00:46:07.315 Absolutely. And I think for me it's about doing my bit 981 00:46:07.315 --> 00:46:09.515 as an author, as a parent, 982 00:46:10.215 --> 00:46:14.645 as an early years educator promoting reading. 983 00:46:14.885 --> 00:46:15.925 'cause there is that decline 984 00:46:15.925 --> 00:46:20.065 because, um, statistically I shouldn't be an author, 985 00:46:20.925 --> 00:46:24.305 you know, working class dyslexic, et cetera. 986 00:46:24.305 --> 00:46:26.785 There's no way I should have any business writing books. 987 00:46:27.485 --> 00:46:30.145 But I did, and I had a love of books 988 00:46:30.145 --> 00:46:32.705 because of my local library and 989 00:46:32.705 --> 00:46:34.505 because as a family of, we used 990 00:46:34.505 --> 00:46:36.945 to have always had books loan from the library. 991 00:46:37.205 --> 00:46:42.135 And for me it was always about knowing as, 992 00:46:42.395 --> 00:46:47.055 as an author, I get to go to many different schools, 993 00:46:48.525 --> 00:46:52.455 museums, festivals, and libraries, sharing my books. 994 00:46:54.195 --> 00:46:55.995 I know that there are a lot of authors 995 00:46:55.995 --> 00:46:57.235 that don't get the opportunity, 996 00:46:57.235 --> 00:46:58.715 especially if they're immersion, 997 00:46:58.715 --> 00:47:00.275 especially if it's their first book out, 998 00:47:00.745 --> 00:47:03.395 they're not always going to get that opportunity. 999 00:47:04.405 --> 00:47:08.275 There are many schools, early year settings 1000 00:47:08.275 --> 00:47:09.835 and other places where children 1001 00:47:09.895 --> 00:47:12.835 and families go to where they don't have the budget 1002 00:47:13.295 --> 00:47:15.275 for an offer to go into their school. 1003 00:47:16.055 --> 00:47:18.475 So then I just thought, okay, then over the last couple 1004 00:47:18.475 --> 00:47:20.675 of years, there must be something to do about it. 1005 00:47:20.705 --> 00:47:22.675 Just a little small thing. 1006 00:47:23.495 --> 00:47:25.675 And that's where I came up with the podcast. 1007 00:47:26.095 --> 00:47:30.045 My words, my book, interviewing authors, um, 1008 00:47:30.885 --> 00:47:33.525 tapestry have created the resources. 1009 00:47:33.545 --> 00:47:35.565 So after every episode there is a resource 1010 00:47:35.715 --> 00:47:40.685 that supports the podcast, um, for children to use. 1011 00:47:40.825 --> 00:47:44.565 So it could be they're using it at home, um, or in schools, 1012 00:47:44.825 --> 00:47:47.445 and it's co-listing, co-viewing. 1013 00:47:48.105 --> 00:47:52.435 So it's about then getting the child, chil getting, 1014 00:47:53.335 --> 00:47:57.315 it is about getting children exposed to different authors, 1015 00:47:58.495 --> 00:48:01.955 um, and knowing what the authors are passionate about, 1016 00:48:02.175 --> 00:48:05.435 the rationale for writing this book, what was their 1017 00:48:05.995 --> 00:48:08.675 favorite book as a child, et cetera. 1018 00:48:09.295 --> 00:48:10.395 So we don't need to 1019 00:48:10.395 --> 00:48:14.475 therefore say it is 11 o'clock, let us stop what we're doing 1020 00:48:14.475 --> 00:48:18.475 because we have to listen or watch this podcast. 1021 00:48:19.305 --> 00:48:20.715 It's an evergreen resource. 1022 00:48:21.535 --> 00:48:24.475 And so, although they are going 1023 00:48:24.475 --> 00:48:26.675 to be released at three different times of the year, 1024 00:48:27.275 --> 00:48:31.755 probably about, um, 30 different episodes, um, 1025 00:48:32.565 --> 00:48:36.515 where it is evergreen, if there's a particular theme 1026 00:48:36.695 --> 00:48:39.555 or anything coming up, they can use that podcast 1027 00:48:39.695 --> 00:48:40.955 as an educator, teacher, 1028 00:48:41.135 --> 00:48:44.715 or parent to support children with the learning 1029 00:48:44.855 --> 00:48:47.795 and with their, to support children with their learning 1030 00:48:48.975 --> 00:48:52.595 and inspire children to write, inspire children to, 1031 00:48:52.975 --> 00:48:55.275 to read more, to find out. 1032 00:48:55.275 --> 00:48:57.115 So I just think it's, it's a small way 1033 00:48:57.815 --> 00:49:01.635 of supporting children with their reading and writing. 1034 00:49:02.465 --> 00:49:03.955 Yeah, yeah. That makes a lot of sense. 1035 00:49:04.025 --> 00:49:06.035 That you can kind of feed them in as 1036 00:49:06.035 --> 00:49:07.995 and when you need them to fit with topics 1037 00:49:07.995 --> 00:49:09.355 that you are doing or conversations. 1038 00:49:09.415 --> 00:49:13.515 That's right. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. 1039 00:49:13.515 --> 00:49:15.875 And I just think it is so important. 1040 00:49:16.215 --> 00:49:20.315 Um, I know the book, trust, literacy Trust, the Center 1041 00:49:20.415 --> 00:49:23.435 for Literacy and Primary Education, they're doing 1042 00:49:23.535 --> 00:49:28.075 so much wonderful work with supporting this initiative 1043 00:49:28.135 --> 00:49:29.595 to get more children reading. 1044 00:49:29.735 --> 00:49:32.635 And there's so many different research on this 1045 00:49:32.815 --> 00:49:34.835 and reasons why it is. 1046 00:49:34.895 --> 00:49:37.595 And we touched on play, didn't we? 1047 00:49:38.415 --> 00:49:40.195 The conversations around screen time. 1048 00:49:40.215 --> 00:49:43.675 But we can't just blame screens by itself 1049 00:49:43.675 --> 00:49:47.715 because I think for me, I'm one saying where this, you know, 1050 00:49:47.725 --> 00:49:49.795 let's span screens, that's not the answer. 1051 00:49:50.035 --> 00:49:52.555 I think it's an we need to share 1052 00:49:52.655 --> 00:49:56.435 and educate parents as the value of screens 1053 00:49:56.455 --> 00:50:01.075 and the value of, um, you know, Tales Toolkit, the value 1054 00:50:01.255 --> 00:50:02.875 of, of Audio Box. 1055 00:50:03.295 --> 00:50:06.475 Mm-hmm. Um, and that's to me, why this podcast? 1056 00:50:06.955 --> 00:50:09.635 I think it's, um, it, it, 1057 00:50:09.705 --> 00:50:12.715 it's come at a good time, I would say. Yeah. 1058 00:50:12.745 --> 00:50:14.755 Yeah. I think that's good. And we'll be putting a link, 1059 00:50:14.935 --> 00:50:16.355 um, underneath the webinar so 1060 00:50:16.475 --> 00:50:17.635 that people can have a look at that too. 1061 00:50:18.375 --> 00:50:21.075 Um, so just the next question, uh, 1062 00:50:21.075 --> 00:50:22.835 thinking about the education system 1063 00:50:22.895 --> 00:50:24.875 as it currently stands, this is a big question. 1064 00:50:25.415 --> 00:50:26.795 Um, what would you change 1065 00:50:27.265 --> 00:50:29.645 and how can we as practitioners out 1066 00:50:29.645 --> 00:50:30.765 there help you with this? 1067 00:50:31.025 --> 00:50:32.685 So what are the first small steps? 1068 00:50:35.065 --> 00:50:37.065 I think we really need to look at 1069 00:50:39.625 --> 00:50:40.715 what is education? 1070 00:50:41.375 --> 00:50:44.115 Mm-hmm. What is education 1071 00:50:44.735 --> 00:50:49.235 and is it serving children that we have a 1072 00:50:49.825 --> 00:50:51.955 Victorian education system? 1073 00:50:54.055 --> 00:50:56.395 Is it fit for purpose now? 1074 00:50:57.595 --> 00:50:59.355 I think that's what we need to look at. 1075 00:50:59.615 --> 00:51:01.155 And I am, 1076 00:51:01.575 --> 00:51:04.955 before anybody emails me, I am an advocate 1077 00:51:05.135 --> 00:51:06.635 for education. 1078 00:51:07.855 --> 00:51:10.835 But I, years ago, um, some 1079 00:51:10.835 --> 00:51:14.315 of the listeners may remember Tony Ben, he was a politician, 1080 00:51:15.135 --> 00:51:18.475 um, labor politician, his wife called Caroline Ben. 1081 00:51:18.535 --> 00:51:22.115 So after I did the NNEB, I went back to evening classes 1082 00:51:22.915 --> 00:51:25.115 probably about 10 years after the NNEB. 1083 00:51:25.735 --> 00:51:29.795 And I did, um, an access course into education just a bit 1084 00:51:29.795 --> 00:51:31.515 more just to help me with essay writing. 1085 00:51:32.415 --> 00:51:34.835 And Tony, Ben's wife, Caroline was my lecturer. 1086 00:51:35.535 --> 00:51:39.555 And one of the things that she, that Caroline said was 1087 00:51:40.315 --> 00:51:44.115 actually, um, this was probably 1088 00:51:44.645 --> 00:51:49.475 going back 27, 28 years ago, in the future, 1089 00:51:50.985 --> 00:51:53.195 what we need to consider, will children need 1090 00:51:53.195 --> 00:51:54.915 to be in school Monday to Friday? 1091 00:51:56.065 --> 00:51:58.955 Will it be that they'll be given their information? 1092 00:51:59.255 --> 00:52:00.595 She said a small computer. 1093 00:52:00.705 --> 00:52:03.315 Then obviously there wasn't the concept of laptops 1094 00:52:03.415 --> 00:52:05.155 and, and iPads. 1095 00:52:06.335 --> 00:52:10.835 And when we look at, um, Kate now remote working 1096 00:52:11.625 --> 00:52:14.475 with so many adults doing, like my son, 1097 00:52:14.545 --> 00:52:15.875 he's home today working. 1098 00:52:16.175 --> 00:52:18.435 He does, he can work from home two days a week. 1099 00:52:19.455 --> 00:52:22.755 Um, there's so many jobs that people do 1100 00:52:22.755 --> 00:52:25.635 where they don't have to be in an office Monday to Friday. 1101 00:52:26.695 --> 00:52:30.595 So I think for me, I personally believe that yes, 1102 00:52:30.795 --> 00:52:32.955 children do not have to be in school Monday to Friday. 1103 00:52:33.175 --> 00:52:35.075 Now I know many schools 1104 00:52:35.745 --> 00:52:38.475 that are finishing half day on a Friday, 1105 00:52:39.935 --> 00:52:42.555 and for children in their school community 1106 00:52:42.815 --> 00:52:44.955 who are vulnerable need to be in school 1107 00:52:45.815 --> 00:52:47.035 for the Friday afternoon. 1108 00:52:47.415 --> 00:52:48.955 The teachers take it in shift. 1109 00:52:49.015 --> 00:52:53.075 It doesn't necessarily mean Friday afternoon that, um, 1110 00:52:54.035 --> 00:52:56.315 teachers go skipping off home, start their weekend, 1111 00:52:57.335 --> 00:52:58.955 you know, they might stay in school. 1112 00:52:58.955 --> 00:53:00.915 That's not gonna, because as you know, as teachers, 1113 00:53:00.915 --> 00:53:02.075 there's always something to do. 1114 00:53:02.075 --> 00:53:05.155 Right. To do. Right. So it could be marking. 1115 00:53:05.345 --> 00:53:06.355 Yeah. I don't see many 1116 00:53:06.595 --> 00:53:07.875 Teachers skipping off at a past three. 1117 00:53:08.345 --> 00:53:10.835 Exactly. Absolutely. That doesn't happen. 1118 00:53:10.835 --> 00:53:12.955 That's why I say to people, I say, you know, teachers are, 1119 00:53:13.415 --> 00:53:17.195 are in school sometimes from seven till seven. 1120 00:53:17.625 --> 00:53:21.275 Yeah. They, this, I dunno where people get that idea from 1121 00:53:21.305 --> 00:53:23.435 that that teachers only work part-time. 1122 00:53:23.545 --> 00:53:25.605 It's a joke and it's an insult to them. 1123 00:53:26.545 --> 00:53:27.885 But I just feel that we, 1124 00:53:28.305 --> 00:53:31.085 and actually there is a private school brand, 1125 00:53:31.305 --> 00:53:32.485 the name escapes me. 1126 00:53:32.515 --> 00:53:34.125 They've started a hybrid. 1127 00:53:34.825 --> 00:53:39.445 Hybrid or hybrid, my verbal dyslexia there, um, concept 1128 00:53:39.695 --> 00:53:42.685 where parents can choose two to three days 1129 00:53:42.685 --> 00:53:44.165 of their children attending. 1130 00:53:44.875 --> 00:53:48.125 Yeah. Well, I, yeah, sorry, button in. 1131 00:53:48.185 --> 00:53:50.165 Um, there's a flexi schooling now. 1132 00:53:50.265 --> 00:53:52.405 So I was looking for my own. Um, 1133 00:53:52.425 --> 00:53:54.245 and there's a lot of schools that will do it 1134 00:53:54.245 --> 00:53:56.885 and there's flexi schooling groups actually, um, 1135 00:53:57.095 --> 00:53:58.765 where they'll help you in terms 1136 00:53:58.765 --> 00:54:02.325 of getting your school on board with doing it, um, where 1137 00:54:03.185 --> 00:54:04.565 you can send your child 1138 00:54:04.565 --> 00:54:06.485 and you kind of decide the days that you send them. 1139 00:54:06.545 --> 00:54:08.405 But not every school has to accept it 1140 00:54:08.405 --> 00:54:10.165 and they don't have to accept it for every parent. 1141 00:54:10.345 --> 00:54:13.965 So it's a real case by case thing that you can put forward, 1142 00:54:14.225 --> 00:54:15.725 but you can put it forward, I think to, 1143 00:54:16.105 --> 00:54:18.525 to any school I think, don't take me on that. 1144 00:54:18.875 --> 00:54:22.445 Yeah. But I think for, for me then now it's about then 1145 00:54:23.875 --> 00:54:26.885 with so many parents choosing to home, 1146 00:54:26.915 --> 00:54:29.285 educate their children, so many 1147 00:54:29.875 --> 00:54:31.845 parents are choosing to do that. 1148 00:54:32.745 --> 00:54:35.485 And I'm sure if we was to do a survey research 1149 00:54:35.625 --> 00:54:38.325 and speak, speak to those parents, some of them might say, 1150 00:54:39.105 --> 00:54:42.525 yes, the flexi schooling the option 1151 00:54:43.145 --> 00:54:47.005 and of sending my child to school, um, two days 1152 00:54:47.005 --> 00:54:50.365 or three days, especially if it's a child, um, 1153 00:54:51.065 --> 00:54:54.125 who struggles in school that arrangement. 1154 00:54:54.125 --> 00:54:56.245 And I remember when I did a keynote last year 1155 00:54:56.915 --> 00:54:59.525 talking about my personal experience raising a child 1156 00:54:59.525 --> 00:55:02.925 of autism, A head came to me and said to me afterwards, 1157 00:55:03.985 --> 00:55:06.605 or we've got a child, mom has requested 1158 00:55:06.675 --> 00:55:09.365 that the child only attends school three days a 1159 00:55:09.365 --> 00:55:10.445 week, two days at home. 1160 00:55:11.565 --> 00:55:14.285 I know that's the best for that child, but we can't do that 1161 00:55:14.285 --> 00:55:16.045 because we have stats to prove. 1162 00:55:16.825 --> 00:55:18.445 So therefore then we have to think, well 1163 00:55:18.465 --> 00:55:20.365 who is, who is it for? 1164 00:55:20.365 --> 00:55:22.325 Because it's not for that child that's gonna make 1165 00:55:22.325 --> 00:55:26.245 that child's self-esteem, self-worth wellbeing a lot worse. 1166 00:55:27.385 --> 00:55:29.565 So I think there's two things is looking at education 1167 00:55:29.705 --> 00:55:30.725 and seriously looking 1168 00:55:30.795 --> 00:55:32.525 because, you know, 1169 00:55:32.785 --> 00:55:35.925 in say 20, 35 years time, 1170 00:55:36.925 --> 00:55:39.205 I think why are we holding on for this? 1171 00:55:39.865 --> 00:55:41.165 You know? And I think 1172 00:55:41.165 --> 00:55:45.925 because of the workforce, how employment is changing 1173 00:55:46.425 --> 00:55:50.445 to that model of hybrid, we knew for instance, 1174 00:55:50.445 --> 00:55:52.485 when five years when we were locked down speaking 1175 00:55:52.585 --> 00:55:55.925 to companies and they said, if anybody had said to us, 1176 00:55:55.925 --> 00:55:58.165 right, we want all our workforce to work from home. 1177 00:55:59.085 --> 00:56:00.125 I remember her saying to me, 1178 00:56:00.185 --> 00:56:02.845 it would be like a five year, 10 year strategy. 1179 00:56:02.945 --> 00:56:04.405 But we did it overnight. 1180 00:56:04.875 --> 00:56:06.525 Yeah. Up and quick. Yeah. 1181 00:56:06.985 --> 00:56:08.405 And we'd still got work done. 1182 00:56:09.025 --> 00:56:12.365 So I think, again, we know that there are colleagues, 1183 00:56:12.365 --> 00:56:14.165 and I know I don't want anybody emailing me 1184 00:56:14.165 --> 00:56:15.925 what about our vulnerable families? 1185 00:56:15.985 --> 00:56:18.325 Yes. I know that I've worked with vulnerable families 1186 00:56:18.425 --> 00:56:23.085 as well, but I think as, again, there is that conversation 1187 00:56:23.265 --> 00:56:27.165 for children in terms of that safeguarding element for, 1188 00:56:27.345 --> 00:56:28.725 for vulnerable children. 1189 00:56:29.185 --> 00:56:31.925 But then I think that comes back to the point that I made 1190 00:56:31.975 --> 00:56:36.365 where we, that unique child that that is, 1191 00:56:36.865 --> 00:56:38.605 that's what we need to go back to. 1192 00:56:38.665 --> 00:56:43.405 So again, looking at children's needs, serious propagation 1193 00:56:44.235 --> 00:56:47.725 that children do not need to be in school Monday to Friday. 1194 00:56:47.755 --> 00:56:51.605 It's a Victorian model going back to why were schools 1195 00:56:52.145 --> 00:56:53.965 set up, you know, 1196 00:56:55.155 --> 00:56:56.155 This is it. Yeah. And 1197 00:56:56.155 --> 00:56:57.565 actually there was a lot of conversations 1198 00:56:58.375 --> 00:57:03.085 after Covid around getting back to normal 1199 00:57:03.305 --> 00:57:05.925 and getting back to like it was before. 1200 00:57:06.385 --> 00:57:08.605 And I remember at the time there being a lot 1201 00:57:08.605 --> 00:57:11.765 of conversations around, well, we don't want to get back 1202 00:57:11.765 --> 00:57:13.325 to normal 'cause normal wasn't good enough 1203 00:57:14.045 --> 00:57:15.045 Actually. That's right, 1204 00:57:15.045 --> 00:57:15.365 yes. 1205 00:57:17.145 --> 00:57:19.525 For us, create something that's better. 1206 00:57:20.305 --> 00:57:22.645 And I think that's kind of got lost a little bit, 1207 00:57:22.705 --> 00:57:24.765 but I think that conversation should still be happening. 1208 00:57:25.345 --> 00:57:27.565 So, um, yeah, I think that's a great thing to say. 1209 00:57:27.755 --> 00:57:29.365 Yeah. I think, yeah, you are right in saying 1210 00:57:29.365 --> 00:57:31.805 that it's about whether or not it happens, 1211 00:57:31.985 --> 00:57:35.685 but at least there is that conversation around it. 1212 00:57:35.905 --> 00:57:37.285 It is that research 1213 00:57:37.285 --> 00:57:40.765 because I think there is that, there's so many, I went 1214 00:57:40.765 --> 00:57:41.965 to something a few weeks ago 1215 00:57:41.965 --> 00:57:45.045 where it was all about making sure children are in school. 1216 00:57:46.095 --> 00:57:48.565 Which I think, yes, but I think the question is never, 1217 00:57:48.755 --> 00:57:50.485 well why aren't these children in school? 1218 00:57:50.675 --> 00:57:52.445 It's, there's, there's reasons why. 1219 00:57:53.145 --> 00:57:56.965 And I think it's about those solutions about saying, well, 1220 00:57:57.185 --> 00:58:00.965 we have to recognize that it doesn't work for every child, 1221 00:58:02.465 --> 00:58:05.805 you know, and I just feel that model where some schools have 1222 00:58:05.805 --> 00:58:10.205 that Friday afternoon, um, that could be a solution whether 1223 00:58:10.205 --> 00:58:11.965 or not it's an afternoon or a day, 1224 00:58:13.065 --> 00:58:16.325 but let's consider it, you know? Yeah. 1225 00:58:16.385 --> 00:58:19.885 That's it. Um, is there anything I haven't asked you about 1226 00:58:19.885 --> 00:58:20.885 that you'd like to say? 1227 00:58:21.665 --> 00:58:24.235 Yes. So Thursday, the 12th of June. 1228 00:58:24.695 --> 00:58:27.275 Um, 'cause I'm all about promoting, 1229 00:58:28.215 --> 00:58:31.715 I'm all about supporting children with their reading, 1230 00:58:32.565 --> 00:58:35.635 supporting families earlier settings in schools. 1231 00:58:35.975 --> 00:58:39.395 So I'm hosting a webinar, it's free colleagues, 1232 00:58:39.545 --> 00:58:40.795 it's free, no money. 1233 00:58:41.015 --> 00:58:42.715 Who are we? Like anything that's free 1234 00:58:43.495 --> 00:58:47.635 and it's titled it Takes a Village, how can we all support 1235 00:58:48.345 --> 00:58:50.595 Free School Children with their Reading? 1236 00:58:51.105 --> 00:58:53.475 Okay. And so it's Thursday, the 12th of June, 1237 00:58:53.855 --> 00:58:55.355 it will be on the socials. 1238 00:58:55.505 --> 00:58:57.315 They, you know, colleagues can email me 1239 00:58:57.815 --> 00:59:01.555 and on this webinar I'm going to be having an assistant head 1240 00:59:02.105 --> 00:59:03.915 talking about what they do 1241 00:59:03.985 --> 00:59:05.515 because I've been into their school. 1242 00:59:05.535 --> 00:59:09.875 So they work very much with children in their early years 1243 00:59:09.875 --> 00:59:11.915 and their parents a year or two 1244 00:59:11.915 --> 00:59:14.635 before they start school to support reading. 1245 00:59:15.855 --> 00:59:19.555 Um, I've got a head children's Liberian within a local 1246 00:59:19.555 --> 00:59:23.245 authority sharing what they do, a child minder. 1247 00:59:25.065 --> 00:59:29.365 Um, there'll be publishers on there, an author like myself, 1248 00:59:30.405 --> 00:59:32.365 a nursery, preschool, and a parent. 1249 00:59:33.225 --> 00:59:35.485 So in terms of it takes a village 1250 00:59:35.715 --> 00:59:40.485 because we always see reading incentives either this is 1251 00:59:40.485 --> 00:59:43.805 what a nursery, this is what an early year setting can do. 1252 00:59:43.835 --> 00:59:45.605 This is what a school must do, this is 1253 00:59:45.605 --> 00:59:46.805 what a parent must do. 1254 00:59:47.385 --> 00:59:52.165 So I'm taking that village concept that it's all 1255 00:59:52.165 --> 00:59:53.325 of our responsibility. 1256 00:59:53.585 --> 00:59:57.205 So on the actual webinar, we will have, um, 1257 00:59:57.205 --> 01:00:00.965 parents on there, early years, colleagues, teachers on that. 1258 01:00:01.025 --> 01:00:04.445 So that's Thursday, the 12th of June, seven 30 1259 01:00:04.625 --> 01:00:08.405 to nine o'clock, spread the word and doing it this time just 1260 01:00:08.405 --> 01:00:09.765 before, as you know yourself, 1261 01:00:10.135 --> 01:00:13.405 those transition meetings happen end of June, 1262 01:00:13.555 --> 01:00:14.885 beginning of July. 1263 01:00:15.265 --> 01:00:19.485 And the other thing is I'm gonna be creating a database full 1264 01:00:19.485 --> 01:00:23.645 of resources for earlier settings for schools 1265 01:00:23.945 --> 01:00:25.725 and for parents as well. 1266 01:00:26.765 --> 01:00:29.525 I will definitely be tuning into that one, Laura. So Yeah. 1267 01:00:29.555 --> 01:00:31.965 Yeah. My, my, my girls start reception in September. 1268 01:00:33.105 --> 01:00:34.725 Oh, wonderful. That's gone quick. 1269 01:00:35.475 --> 01:00:37.285 Yeah, that's gone quick. It's gone really quick. 1270 01:00:37.385 --> 01:00:40.605 So I am one of those parents, so yeah. Yeah. That's good. 1271 01:00:41.185 --> 01:00:43.725 Fab. Brilliant. Um, I'll put that as well, um, 1272 01:00:44.265 --> 01:00:46.805 in our email stuff like before June. Yeah, 1273 01:00:46.955 --> 01:00:47.955 Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. 1274 01:00:47.955 --> 01:00:49.285 Thank you so much. Thank you. 1275 01:00:49.305 --> 01:00:51.645 And thank you Kate for all that you are doing in terms 1276 01:00:51.645 --> 01:00:52.925 of supporting children 1277 01:00:53.075 --> 01:00:55.765 with their communication language and literacy. 1278 01:00:55.765 --> 01:00:57.365 Oh, thank you. That tells toolkit. 1279 01:00:58.155 --> 01:01:00.085 It's so wonderful when I'm in a setting old school 1280 01:01:00.145 --> 01:01:03.045 and I see the little, the brand, I'm like, Ooh. 1281 01:01:03.865 --> 01:01:05.405 So that, yeah. 1282 01:01:05.555 --> 01:01:06.965 Well we're doing some exciting stuff with them 1283 01:01:06.965 --> 01:01:08.565 and we've just started working with Chicken Shed 1284 01:01:08.565 --> 01:01:09.725 Theater. Oh, 1285 01:01:09.725 --> 01:01:10.725 Beautiful. 1286 01:01:10.755 --> 01:01:12.925 Yeah. So they're putting on a Tales Toolkit show 1287 01:01:13.345 --> 01:01:15.365 and they're gonna be going into some schools and doing it. 1288 01:01:15.865 --> 01:01:18.445 Um, and they're gonna be doing it at the British Summertime 1289 01:01:18.765 --> 01:01:21.765 Festival, the British Library discovering Stratford. 1290 01:01:22.345 --> 01:01:23.965 So yeah, so there's some kind 1291 01:01:23.965 --> 01:01:25.245 of new little bits happening now 1292 01:01:25.265 --> 01:01:27.405 and we're also are doing more with, um, special needs. 1293 01:01:28.305 --> 01:01:30.885 So, so we're really excited about doing stuff there. 1294 01:01:30.965 --> 01:01:34.245 And we've got a school, which is in Kent that does it with, 1295 01:01:34.385 --> 01:01:36.885 um, children up to 19, so 1296 01:01:36.905 --> 01:01:37.905 Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, 1297 01:01:37.905 --> 01:01:39.045 yeah, yeah. 1298 01:01:40.005 --> 01:01:41.605 Exciting. But, but yeah, it's just, 1299 01:01:41.675 --> 01:01:42.925 it's always just getting the word 1300 01:01:42.925 --> 01:01:43.965 out on things, isn't it, Laura? 1301 01:01:44.065 --> 01:01:47.645 Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. No, that's fantastic. 1302 01:01:48.065 --> 01:01:50.525 But thank you so much, Kate. 1303 01:01:50.675 --> 01:01:53.525 It's been, um, lovely for you to interview me 1304 01:01:54.425 --> 01:01:57.325 and thank you to all the colleagues who have listened 1305 01:01:57.465 --> 01:02:00.535 and, you know, I am in awe of anybody 1306 01:02:00.635 --> 01:02:05.135 who works within early years and within the education world 1307 01:02:05.135 --> 01:02:08.735 because it's making a difference to children 1308 01:02:08.875 --> 01:02:10.335 and their families, you know? 1309 01:02:11.245 --> 01:02:12.615 Yeah. That's it. That's it. 1310 01:02:12.615 --> 01:02:17.415 Massive thank you to Yeah, massive, massive thank you 1311 01:02:17.415 --> 01:02:18.855 to you, Laura, too, for joining 1312 01:02:18.875 --> 01:02:20.125 us and speaking to us tonight. 1313 01:02:20.425 --> 01:02:22.845 And I know that lots of people will be very excited 1314 01:02:22.945 --> 01:02:25.725 to hear you speak and also come along to your webinar too. 1315 01:02:26.385 --> 01:02:29.005 Oh, yes, absolutely. Because it's free as well. 1316 01:02:29.105 --> 01:02:31.765 And I think, again, that's the thing for me is to, 1317 01:02:32.265 --> 01:02:33.565 to make it free, in fact. 1318 01:02:33.565 --> 01:02:36.645 And the, and the, the speakers on the panel, 1319 01:02:36.645 --> 01:02:38.845 they're giving their time up for, for free. 1320 01:02:39.745 --> 01:02:42.525 Um, and I think to have a parent on there is going 1321 01:02:42.525 --> 01:02:45.205 to be quite, you know, profound and, 1322 01:02:45.345 --> 01:02:49.285 and amazing in terms of sharing what she did with, 1323 01:02:49.505 --> 01:02:52.445 or she does rather with her children in terms 1324 01:02:52.445 --> 01:02:57.405 of supporting reading, um, because there is this gap now 1325 01:02:57.545 --> 01:03:00.925 and making sure holistically, yeah, books are there 1326 01:03:00.925 --> 01:03:02.365 because books are my bag. 1327 01:03:02.625 --> 01:03:03.625 Excuse the pun. 1328 01:03:05.135 --> 01:03:06.205 We're all good. We've got books 1329 01:03:06.205 --> 01:03:07.645 and stories going on on this webinar. 1330 01:03:08.285 --> 01:03:10.005 Absolutely, absolutely. Absolutely. 1331 01:03:10.185 --> 01:03:12.205 But thank you, Kate, again, thank you. 1332 01:03:12.985 --> 01:03:13.405 Lovely.